It's not clear from the suttas or the Vinaya what the Buddha or the redactors themselves thought about this sob-sob reaction, but it's quite clear from the texts that the speakers believe what they said about lacking the supporting conditions for success in the monastic life. Not quite "grace" in the theistic sense of from "another", but what are we anyway if not the product of "our" past?mayamevamhā alakkhikā mayaṃ appapuññā te mayaṃ evaṃ svākkhāte dhammavinaye pabbajitvā nāsakkhimhā yāvajīvaṃ paripuṇṇaṃ parisuddhaṃ brahmacariyaṃ caritu’’nti
We were unlucky, we have little merit; for though we went forth into homelessness in such a well-proclaimed Dhamma, we were unable to live the perfect and pure holy life for the rest of our lives.
eg MN 77
A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Sam Vara and Mr Man are on to something when they talk about favourable conditions and boon and barami. Here's a formulaic statement from the suttas about how ex-monks reflect on their dropping out of the monastic life -
- Posts: 974
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:52 am
- Location: San Francisco (The Mission) Ca USA
Either unfathomably more than that or nothing at all.Sylvester wrote:what are we anyway if not the product of "our" past?
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
That doesn't mean that the Dhamma is some kind of omnipotence granting you something you don't deserve because of it's benevolence (aka grace). What i believe Goenka is saying is that you are working in harmony with nature and when you work in harmony with nature you are no longer resisting nature so things start falling into place, harmony leads to more harmony.qoheleth wrote:He has attended several of the 10 day Goenka Vipassana retreats, and he quoted Goenka as saying something like: "The Dhamma wants you to be awakened," or "it begins to work with you", or something to that effect. I realize that he does not represent Theravada, but it made me think of the concept of grace,
It's all about how you work, not free gifts.
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah
Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 55 guests