This quote on consciousness

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Cassandra
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This quote on consciousness

Post by Cassandra »

Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking inside a radio for the announcer
I just saw this on the Web. I feel there is an element of truth in it. Isn't consciousness just a product of senses functioning rather than a real entity on its own?
daverupa
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by daverupa »

The comparison seems off, since there is no consciousness "out there" in a mystical broadcast studio, sending signals to the radio-brain.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Prasadachitta
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by Prasadachitta »

Maybe more like

Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking for sound inside a speaker.

:shrug:
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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m0rl0ck
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by m0rl0ck »

Prasadachitta wrote:Maybe more like

Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking for sound inside a speaker.

:shrug:
Not bad. Still assumes that there is some source outside the system.
How about:

Looking for consciousness in the brain is like selling ice cubes to eskimos :jumping:
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig
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SDC
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by SDC »

Cassandra wrote:
Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking inside a radio for the announcer
I just saw this on the Web. I feel there is an element of truth in it. Isn't consciousness just a product of senses functioning rather than a real entity on its own?
I heard a monk make a similar analogy in a lecture. I dig it.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Buckwheat
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by Buckwheat »

There is a reason that in psychology they refer to consciousness as "the hard problem".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_probl ... sciousness
Several questions about consciousness must be resolved in order to acquire a full understanding of it. These questions include, but are not limited to, whether being conscious could be wholly described in physical terms, such as the aggregation of neural processes in the brain. It follows that if consciousness cannot be explained exclusively by physical events in the brain, it must transcend the capabilities of physical systems and require an explanation of nonphysical means. For philosophers who assert that consciousness is nonphysical in nature, there remains a question about what outside of physical theory is required to explain consciousness.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
pegembara
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by pegembara »

Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking for the thinker behind thoughts. In other words - Is there a thinker without thoughts?
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Polar Bear
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by Polar Bear »

pegembara wrote:Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking for the thinker behind thoughts. In other words - Is there a thinker without thoughts?
And isn't the thinker just another thought?
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
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convivium
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by convivium »

there is pre-linguistic (merely representative) Intentionality (that isn't imposed on a particular language of whatever sort).
it's the sort of primative basis of meaning (beliefs desires etc) we derive from, and impose on e.g. words.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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convivium
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by convivium »

Looking for consciousness in the brain is like selling ice cubes to eskimos
we'll find a neurological correlate for consciousness soon enough. just wait. :console:
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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convivium
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by convivium »

every advanced, higher level feature in nature is localized in some lower level system. i don't see why CS should be any different.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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equilibrium
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by equilibrium »

polarbuddha101 wrote:
pegembara wrote:Looking for consciousness in the brain is like looking for the thinker behind thoughts. In other words - Is there a thinker without thoughts?
And isn't the thinker just another thought?
So what is "beyond" the thinker/thoughts?
Cassandra
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by Cassandra »

daverupa wrote:The comparison seems off, since there is no consciousness "out there" in a mystical broadcast studio, sending signals to the radio-brain.
Yea I agree. But there is no need to go to that extent of detail. Just focus only on the radio, without extending the analogy to the broadcast studio. Within the capacity of the radio, consciousness is just a product of the radio's electronic functions and hardware gadgets.
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kirk5a
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by kirk5a »

I think we need a working definition of consciousness here. As in, what exactly is being referred to by "consciousness" ?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: This quote on consciousness

Post by Ron-The-Elder »

kirk5a wrote:I think we need a working definition of consciousness here. As in, what exactly is being referred to by "consciousness" ?
Having done extensive research into this topic on other threads I found basically two lines of results:

1. What Buddha taught.
SN 25.3 PTS: S iii 226 CDB i 1005
Viññana Sutta: Consciousness
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 2004–2013
At Savatthi. "Monks, eye-consciousness is inconstant, changeable, alterable. Ear-consciousness... Nose-consciousness... Tongue-consciousness... Body-consciousness... Intellect-consciousness is inconstant, changeable, alterable.

"One who has conviction & belief that these phenomena are this way is called a faith-follower: one who has entered the orderliness of rightness, entered the plane of people of integrity, transcended the plane of the run-of-the-mill. He is incapable of doing any deed by which he might be reborn in hell, in the animal womb, or in the realm of hungry shades. He is incapable of passing away until he has realized the fruit of stream-entry.

"One who, after pondering with a modicum of discernment, has accepted that these phenomena are this way is called a Dhamma-follower: one who has entered the orderliness of rightness, entered the plane of people of integrity, transcended the plane of the run-of-the-mill. He is incapable of doing any deed by which he might be reborn in hell, in the animal womb, or in the realm of hungry shades. He is incapable of passing away until he has realized the fruit of stream-entry.

"One who knows and sees that these phenomena are this way is called a stream-enterer, steadfast, never again destined for states of woe, headed for self-awakening."
SN 12.44 PTS: S ii 73 CDB i 581
Loka Sutta: The World
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 1998–2013
Dwelling at Savatthi. There the Blessed One addressed the monks: "I will teach you the origination of the world & the ending of the world. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak."

"As you say, lord," the monks responded to the Blessed One.

The Blessed One said: "And what is the origination of the world? Dependent on the eye & forms there arises eye-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. This is the origination of the world.

"Dependent on the ear & sounds there arises ear-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the nose & aromas there arises nose-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the tongue & flavors there arises tongue-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the body & tactile sensations there arises body-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the intellect & mental qualities there arises intellect-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. This is the origination of the world.

"And what is the ending of the world? Dependent on the eye & forms there arises eye-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. Now, from the remainderless cessation & fading away of that very craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of stress & suffering. This is the ending of the world.

"Dependent on the ear & sounds there arises ear-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the nose & aromas there arises nose-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the tongue & flavors there arises tongue-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the body & tactile sensations there arises body-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact... Dependent on the intellect & mental qualities there arises intellect-consciousness. The meeting of the three is contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. Now, from the remainderless cessation & fading away of that very craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of stress & suffering. This is the ending of the world."
see also: The Six Sextets: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

2. What modern science has discovered. ( See several excellent discussions on TED Talks ) :reading:

http://www.ted.com/talks/tags/consciousness
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
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