What is right Livelihood?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SarathW
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Re: What is right Livelihood?

Post by SarathW » Fri May 06, 2016 5:21 am

Say if you see a dead dear (fresh) in the street hit by a car.
Say you have noting else to eat.
You bring the dead dear home and cook and eat it.
I do not think it is bad kamma.
It is bad kamma if you eat the whole dear in one go because of greediness. (but it is a different kind of bad kamma)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

D1W1
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Re: What is right Livelihood?

Post by D1W1 » Fri May 06, 2016 5:32 am

SarathW wrote:Say if you see a dead dear (fresh) in the street hit by a car.
Say you have noting else to eat.
You bring the dead dear home and cook and eat it.
I do not think it is bad kamma.
It is bad kamma if you eat the whole dear in one go because of greediness. (but it is a different kind of bad kamma)
If a dead dear hit by car, ambulance or similar to that will come.
About eating in one go, I don't think dear is smaller in size than carrot.
But cutting meat or cooking meat is different. Does chopping meat, cutting flesh or maybe breaking the bone of dead animal (for some) create no bad kamma at all?

I would like to know about this since it seems to be pretty close with what you do with the flesh of dead animals. Some people are not allowed to cook meat so I guess there is reason for the prohibition.
Last edited by D1W1 on Fri May 06, 2016 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

chownah
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Re: What is right Livelihood?

Post by chownah » Fri May 06, 2016 5:42 am

D1W1 wrote:Having raised pigs, one sells them. This is what selling meat means, a wrong livelihood. If someone cooks meat, cut meat, I assume this is not wrong livelihood as per the meaning of the letter but does cutting meat e.g. chicken breast fillet and cooking meat are actually create bad kamma? Any reply would be great. Thank you.
So, if a knife is sitting on the edge of a table and there is a piece of meat on the floor right below it and if an earthquake strikes and the knife falls off the table and cuts the piece of meat is bad kamma created and if so who owns it?....that is to ask if it is the reality of a knife severing meat fibres which gives the rise of kamma?
chownah

D1W1
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Re: What is right Livelihood?

Post by D1W1 » Fri May 06, 2016 6:16 am

chownah wrote:
D1W1 wrote:Having raised pigs, one sells them. This is what selling meat means, a wrong livelihood. If someone cooks meat, cut meat, I assume this is not wrong livelihood as per the meaning of the letter but does cutting meat e.g. chicken breast fillet and cooking meat are actually create bad kamma? Any reply would be great. Thank you.
So, if a knife is sitting on the edge of a table and there is a piece of meat on the floor right below it and if an earthquake strikes and the knife falls off the table and cuts the piece of meat is bad kamma created and if so who owns it?....that is to ask if it is the reality of a knife severing meat fibres which gives the rise of kamma?
chownah
No person actually holds and cuts the meat so I wouldn't say there is kamma. :anjali:
But in most occasions people who work in food establishment, for example, cut the meat with his own hand. It is this activity that I am not quite sure.

chownah
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Re: What is right Livelihood?

Post by chownah » Fri May 06, 2016 8:49 am

D1W1 wrote:
chownah wrote:
D1W1 wrote:Having raised pigs, one sells them. This is what selling meat means, a wrong livelihood. If someone cooks meat, cut meat, I assume this is not wrong livelihood as per the meaning of the letter but does cutting meat e.g. chicken breast fillet and cooking meat are actually create bad kamma? Any reply would be great. Thank you.
So, if a knife is sitting on the edge of a table and there is a piece of meat on the floor right below it and if an earthquake strikes and the knife falls off the table and cuts the piece of meat is bad kamma created and if so who owns it?....that is to ask if it is the reality of a knife severing meat fibres which gives the rise of kamma?
chownah
No person actually holds and cuts the meat so I wouldn't say there is kamma. :anjali:
But in most occasions people who work in food establishment, for example, cut the meat with his own hand. It is this activity that I am not quite sure.
Good. So it is not the steel of the blade cutting the meat which causes kamma. Is it the physical contact between the hand and the knife handle which causes the kamma? Is it the connection of the hand with the rest of the body which causes the kamma? Is it the connection between the body and the mind which causes the kamma? Is it the content of the mind which causes the kamma? Is it the intent carried in the mind which IS the kamma?
chownah

D1W1
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Re: What is right Livelihood?

Post by D1W1 » Fri May 06, 2016 10:25 am

chownah wrote: Good. So it is not the steel of the blade cutting the meat which causes kamma. Is it the physical contact between the hand and the knife handle which causes the kamma? Is it the connection of the hand with the rest of the body which causes the kamma? Is it the connection between the body and the mind which causes the kamma? Is it the content of the mind which causes the kamma? Is it the intent carried in the mind which IS the kamma?
chownah
It's no doubt the intention is the most important but it seems to be very close to "dealing with meat." A slaughterer leaves a whole dead animal for someone to convert it into pieces of meat for sale. That would include cut open the flesh, take all the innards out from the animal body, wash it, cut into pieces, sever the neck, etc.. Would someone who cut the flesh of the animal and do all that job never have doubt whether his job is right livelihood or not? He is not killing the animal but cutting the flesh of animals.

chownah
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Re: What is right Livelihood?

Post by chownah » Fri May 06, 2016 2:37 pm

D1W1 wrote:
chownah wrote: Good. So it is not the steel of the blade cutting the meat which causes kamma. Is it the physical contact between the hand and the knife handle which causes the kamma? Is it the connection of the hand with the rest of the body which causes the kamma? Is it the connection between the body and the mind which causes the kamma? Is it the content of the mind which causes the kamma? Is it the intent carried in the mind which IS the kamma?
chownah
Would someone who cut the flesh of the animal and do all that job never have doubt whether his job is right livelihood or not? He is not killing the animal but cutting the flesh of animals.
I think it is important for all of us to do our best to discern what our intentions are and it may be that the most valuable thing we get from right livelihood is the encouragement to ferret out some of our intentions and to try to understand how they arise.
chownah

steve19800
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Re: What is right Livelihood?

Post by steve19800 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:58 pm

Just came across this thread.
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:06 am
However, if you owned and ran the business yourself it would be a wrong livelihood.
But previously Bhante, you said this:

A quick and free translation:

In the seventh sutta, "trading" means the work of buying and selling. A lay disciple means one who has taken the three refuges. Trading in weapons means, having made weapons one sells them. Trading in beings means, selling human beings. Trading in flesh means having raised pigs or deer, etc., one sells them. Trading in intoxicants means, having made intoxicants, one sells them. Trading in poisons means, having made poisons, one sells them. Thus, all of these trades, one should neither do oneself, nor order others to do them.
As you said above, "Trading in flesh" means having raised pigs, one sells them (for their meat). Then why owning a restaurant is wrong livelihood? Restaurant owner doesn't kill animals for their meat. Can you please clarify?

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