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Re: Do enlightened people experience kamma vipaka
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:33 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings Kirk,
I can see how you got from A to B, but I wouldn't regard that which represents "life" and that which is "fabricated and willed" as synonymous... especially in the context of an arahant.
Metta,
Retro.
Re: Do enlightened people experience kamma vipaka
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:55 am
by kirk5a
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Kirk,
I can see how you got from A to B, but I wouldn't regard that which represents "life" and that which is "fabricated and willed" as synonymous... especially in the context of an arahant.
Is something riding on those being synonymous? I don't see what your point is.
Re: Do enlightened people experience kamma vipaka
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:43 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings Kirk,
The SN 35.145 extract on old kamma sounds phenomenlogical in intent (i.e. kaya-sankhara, mano-sankhara), whereas the MN 140 extract on death sounds ontological in intent.
Personally wouldn't use an ontological statement as the basis for affirming or rejecting a phenomenological statement. That's all.
Metta,
Retro.
Re: Do enlightened people experience kamma vipaka
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:17 am
by kirk5a
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Kirk,
The SN 35.145 extract on old kamma sounds phenomenlogical in intent (i.e. kaya-sankhara, mano-sankhara), whereas the MN 140 extract on death sounds ontological in intent.
Personally wouldn't use an ontological statement as the basis for affirming or rejecting a phenomenological statement. That's all.
Is there any guidance from the suttas on differentiating between "phenomenological statements" and "ontological statements"?
Re: Do enlightened people experience kamma vipaka
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:39 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings Kirk,
kirk5a wrote:Is there any guidance from the suttas on differentiating between "phenomenological statements" and "ontological statements"?
It's not a classification scheme called out in the suttas, so no.... but we do often see the Buddha reframing certain prevailing concepts (e.g. loka, sabba) from ontological to phenomenological perspectives, so it's not without precedent.
The fact something like "old kamma" is formed (sankhata) suggests to me it is the product of avijja (i.e. a product of dependent origination), and thus phenomenological. I'm not here to argue the point, just to explain how I see it.... you may take it or leave it as you see fit.
Metta,
Retro.