Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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JeffR
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Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition

Post by JeffR » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:18 am

Hickersonia wrote:
JeffR wrote:As for the question of why bhikkus disrobe, Santikaro has married since disrobing and speculation is that points to the answer of "why".
I think we spend a lot of time worrying about the reasons why one might disrobe when those reasons may not really be any of our business. I don't mind the idea of a monk (or nun) disrobing -- at least there isn't a defeat offense involved then, and maybe men such as Santikaro can contribute just as much (or more) in lay life.

And I'm not really sure that the reasons why one monk or another might disrobe is really to the point of this thread anyway...

:anjali:
Well said. Santikaro's teachings are just as good, robe or no robe. He still practices well, just no longer binds to the Vinaya. I recommend him as a teacher.
-Jeff :anjali:
Therein what are 'six (types of) disrespect'? One dwells without respect, without deference for the Teacher; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Teaching; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Order; one dwells without respect, without deference for the precepts; one dwells without respect, without deference for heedfulness; one dwells without respect, without deference for hospitality. These are six (types of) disrespect.
:Vibh 945

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kmath
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Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition

Post by kmath » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:15 am

Hickersonia wrote:rying about the reasons why one might disrobe when those reasons may not really be any of our business.
True but there are a number of folks on this forum thinking about ordaining. For them the reasons monks and nuns disrobe is useful information. For me, I'm just plain curious. I'm interested enough in Dhamma that I like hearing about other's experiences.

:anjali:

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pilgrim
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Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition

Post by pilgrim » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:28 pm

Ajahn Khemasanto of Wat Dhammasala.
Does anyone know him personally?
http://www.dhammasala.org/

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pilgrim
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Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition

Post by pilgrim » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:59 am

An article from last year on Ajahn Khemasanto
http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/index ... _temp.html

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pilgrim
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Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition

Post by pilgrim » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:26 am

Phra Ofer Adi in Israel ( disciple of Ajahn Tong Sirmangalo)
http://www.healersworldwide.com/article ... anabidhan/

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BodhiJay
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Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition

Post by BodhiJay » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:27 am

kmath wrote:
Hickersonia wrote:rying about the reasons why one might disrobe when those reasons may not really be any of our business.
True but there are a number of folks on this forum thinking about ordaining. For them the reasons monks and nuns disrobe is useful information. For me, I'm just plain curious. I'm interested enough in Dhamma that I like hearing about other's experiences.

:anjali:
I was a monk for 2 years ( ages 21-23) I ordained as a novice with the intent of just trying it out for one month but the life of a Samana fit me very well so I stayed on. I ordained at a Lao Wat which was founded by 2 monks who where ordained in Thai Forest Tradition but the other monks where all from village wats in Laos. While the Focus was on the ceremony and culture the Wat has plenty of forest to seek refuge in. I stayed there for most of my time but was asked to go to a small Wat in Illinois for my 2nd Vassa as a novice. I was fortunate enough to spend a few months at the Wat Thai Boston for a few months before I disrobed. Being that it was 3 years ago I am sure I have forgotten some of the reasons why I disrobed(which was the hardest decision of my life to this day). A lot of things that fueled aversion in me where the reverse culture shock I experienced with the monks using money and have the trappings I was trying to get away from (Money,external entertainment,etc.) I used Facebook and the Internet as a means to learn and share the Dhamma which was mostly good aside from the time it took away from the true practice( for a young monk unfamiliar with a healthy balance). I was asked questions in private by a woman which I avoided for a very long time. I didn't hold any of the monks as my teacher aside from watching the Senior Monks example which was that of a true Bhikkhu, so I never really asked any questions or went to anyone for guidance as I didn't really know what to ask or if I get an answer other than being told I'm trying to hard(with regards to trying to maintain my Sila). During my Vassa in Illinois in a small house I dealt with being homesick which eventually lapsed and I was able to throw myself into studying the Vinaya(The BMC's) I noticed bad Habits starting to creep in which I was able to remain mindful of and stem some of them. I returned to Mass and Took full ordination and nearly fainted being told to participate in the Lao tradition I forget and don't care to know the name of stepping on the laity's belongings while the put MONEY in my yam. I made a vow and stuck to it that even though I was told I had to take the money that I would just put it in the donation box when the coast was clear. Time went on and I was invited to stay at the Thai temple which I happily accepted although the abbot and vice abbot didn't want me to on the Condition that I would come back and go to do a ceremony at one of the monks aunts house in Nevada. I stayed at the Thai Wat and learned a lot from the monks there before going to Nevada. In Nevada we stayed in a small house with the monks aunt and Uncle and his female cousin, where we stayed in a room with a huge bed, I managed to sleep on the floor. During this time the same woman started to message me and caught me when my guard was down sparking my curiosity.At the same time my dad was going in for major rotator cuff surgery. I returned to Mass with my head on fire. I was noticing my mind wasn't to the standard I set for a Samana so I bit the Bullet and Disrobed before I would do any more damage to my own mind and more importantly to the robes I wore.
:soap:
Please forgive me if anything I have said so far is out of line in any way especially towards the Dhamma

With that soap Opera out in the open(sorry for the dirty laundry) I am intending to stay with train, and help out and ultimately Ordain at Tan Ajaan Dick's Wat. I am in the slow process of renouncing everything(which I didn't do before) along with cutting all my technology out(as per my temperament to over indulge as I have before), I had a decent Conversation with Tan Ajaan Geoff and he gave me some very good insight for this time along with familiarizing myself with the BMC's again along with the recitation of the Patimokkha(one of my favorite forms of meditation ;) ) and really making sure I commit myself to Tan Ajaan and the Teaching
When I set out to practice, I had only one book — the Patimokkha — in my shoulder bag. Now I was going for the full path and the full results.-Luang Ta Maha Boowa NanaSampanno

Seymour
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Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition

Post by Seymour » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:00 pm

Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:01 pm


Then there are some western Dhammayutt monks who trained in the TFT but with less well-known ajahns. Here too I’m not up to date, but I think most whom I used to know have disrobed except the New Zealander Tan Guttasīla and the Aussie Bill Platypus (I forget his Pali name). I've no idea what's become of those two.

If my source is correct the Aussie's Pali name was Khantasilo.
Simple living high thinking.

form
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Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition

Post by form » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:00 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:01 pm
I'm interested in investigating the teachings of some western teachers in the Thai Forest Tradition that didn't train under Ajahn Chah or belong to his monasteries.
I don’t think there’s very much to investigate here. Outside of those in the Ajahn Chah circuit very few western monks in the TFT have set themselves up as teachers.

The Ajahn Thet disciples of the 70's and 80's have all disrobed except Ajahn Munindo, who switched to Ajahn Chah, and Ajahn Dhammachando (Tan Chad), who lives as a hermit in Tak Province and doesn’t teach.

The Buddhadāsa disciples have all disrobed, with the exception of the veteran German monk Tan Khemadassī (who was only rather loosely associated with Ajahn Buddhadāsa). He lives as a hermit on an island in Trat Province and doesn’t teach. Of those who’ve disrobed I think only the ex-Santikaro Bhikkhu now teaches.

As for Ajahn Mahā Boowa’s disciples, I’m not up-to-date with the recent generation, but of the four I used to know back in the 80's, Ajahn Paññavaḍḍho is deceased, Tan John Vuḍḍhiko disrobed, and I haven’t heard anything about Sīlaratano or Abhijāto taking up teaching. Paññavaḍḍho gave a few interviews and Q & A sessions in the last years of his life, but their contents were scarcely more than a reiteration of Mahā Boowa’s teaching.

Then there are some western Dhammayutt monks who trained in the TFT but with less well-known ajahns. Here too I’m not up to date, but I think most whom I used to know have disrobed except the New Zealander Tan Guttasīla and the Aussie Bill Platypus (I forget his Pali name). I've no idea what's become of those two.

If you're interested in TFT-like stuff that's independent of Ajahn Chah, it might be more fruitful to look at those teachers who were formerly in the Ajahn Chah camp but then moved onto other pastures, or who are technically still in the camp but whose dhammic centre of gravity appears to lie elsewhere than in Ajahn Chah's teachings.
Are there any devotes serving the needs of those hermit monks?

Seymour
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Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition

Post by Seymour » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:47 pm

form wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:00 am
Dhammanando wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:01 pm
I'm interested in investigating the teachings of some western teachers in the Thai Forest Tradition that didn't train under Ajahn Chah or belong to his monasteries.
I don’t think there’s very much to investigate here. Outside of those in the Ajahn Chah circuit very few western monks in the TFT have set themselves up as teachers.

The Ajahn Thet disciples of the 70's and 80's have all disrobed except Ajahn Munindo, who switched to Ajahn Chah, and Ajahn Dhammachando (Tan Chad), who lives as a hermit in Tak Province and doesn’t teach.

The Buddhadāsa disciples have all disrobed, with the exception of the veteran German monk Tan Khemadassī (who was only rather loosely associated with Ajahn Buddhadāsa). He lives as a hermit on an island in Trat Province and doesn’t teach. Of those who’ve disrobed I think only the ex-Santikaro Bhikkhu now teaches.

As for Ajahn Mahā Boowa’s disciples, I’m not up-to-date with the recent generation, but of the four I used to know back in the 80's, Ajahn Paññavaḍḍho is deceased, Tan John Vuḍḍhiko disrobed, and I haven’t heard anything about Sīlaratano or Abhijāto taking up teaching. Paññavaḍḍho gave a few interviews and Q & A sessions in the last years of his life, but their contents were scarcely more than a reiteration of Mahā Boowa’s teaching.

Then there are some western Dhammayutt monks who trained in the TFT but with less well-known ajahns. Here too I’m not up to date, but I think most whom I used to know have disrobed except the New Zealander Tan Guttasīla and the Aussie Bill Platypus (I forget his Pali name). I've no idea what's become of those two.

If you're interested in TFT-like stuff that's independent of Ajahn Chah, it might be more fruitful to look at those teachers who were formerly in the Ajahn Chah camp but then moved onto other pastures, or who are technically still in the camp but whose dhammic centre of gravity appears to lie elsewhere than in Ajahn Chah's teachings.
Are there any devotes serving the needs of those hermit monks?
Assuming that they go for alms everyday.
Simple living high thinking.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition

Post by Dhammanando » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:28 pm

form wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:00 am
Are there any devotes serving the needs of those hermit monks?
I'm not presently in touch with them, but if they're living in Thailand it's unlikely they'll lack the four requisites.

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Goofaholix
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Re: Western Teachers of the Thai Forest Tradition

Post by Goofaholix » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:35 pm

This thread appears to be assuming that someone who trained in the Thai Forest tradition and has since disrobed and is now teaching as a layperson is not of interest, if that's the intention then continue on.

There are quite a few of these that trained in the the Ajahn Chah tradition, I can think of a couple of others that trained with non Ajahn Chah teachers and there are probably many more.
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

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