The causes for wisdom

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:23 pm

robertk wrote:Saddhdhamma, true Dhamma is a frequentvterm in the tipitika to refer to the Buddhas teaching.
But that does not answer the question and point raised: How do you know it is "true Dhamma" that you are hearing? And I would guess that there is non-"true Dhamma," which is what us meditators are hearing.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:35 pm

robertk wrote:
So do you just work on panna, and leave aside sila and samadhi?
When there is panna, for those brief moments one is free of illwill, lust and any harmful.factors. there is also samadhi at that time
So, in other words, what I am getting out of this is that one really does not need to worry about sila at all; one just has to make sure that one is listening to the "true Dhamma," and the "true Dhamma" really does not include any admonitions to actively cultivate sila or to actively cultivate concentration and mindfulness. By listening to the "true Dhamma" only, everything -- sila, insight, concentration -- happens because the listening to the "true Dhamma" alone is what sets up the conditions for those things to arise. Anything else is not "true Dhamma."
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

Kenshou
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Kenshou » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:45 pm

Would it be rude to say, without implicating any specific individuals, that this Sujin approach seems suspiciously and conveniently well crafted to allow a dhamma that allows one to not actually put in any real effort or do any real practice. Beyond I suppose, study and sila at most, as far as I can tell.

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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:26 am

Kenshou wrote:Would it be rude to say, without implicating any specific individuals, that this Sujin approach seems suspiciously and conveniently well crafted to allow a dhamma that allows one to not actually put in any real effort or do any real practice. Beyond I suppose, study and sila at most, as far as I can tell.
Unquestionably, it is unusual. While it may be a way of practice, the problem I have with what is being presented by the Sujin followers in this thread is what looks to be the unqualified rejection of any other way of practice as being actually efficacious or legitimate or taught by the Buddha.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723


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Ben
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Ben » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:13 am

Virgo wrote:This is a good related talk:

http://www.dhammastudygroup.org/audio/2 ... m-b-01.mp3
Related to what, exactly, Kevin?
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Mr Man
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Mr Man » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:15 am

Hi Virgo
Perhaps you could bring what you took from the talk to the discusion?

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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:16 am

Mr Man wrote:Hi Virgo
Perhaps you could bring what you took from the talk to the discusion?
Did you listen to it?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Mr Man
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Mr Man » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:42 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote:Hi Virgo
Perhaps you could bring what you took from the talk to the discusion?
Did you listen to it?
Yes I did. I think that it would be nice for Virgo to say how he relates the clip to this discusion though.

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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:52 am

Mr Man wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote:Hi Virgo
Perhaps you could bring what you took from the talk to the discusion?
Did you listen to it?
Yes I did. I think that it would be nice for Virgo to say how he relates the clip to this discusion though.
I hope he does. One needs to do more than just plop something on the table without being willing to discuss it. While the characterization of traditional metta meditation is in line with some things said in this thread, it would be of interest to read a what Sujin followers have to about what is said in the talk.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Virgo
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Virgo » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:45 pm

Ben wrote:
Virgo wrote:This is a good related talk:

http://www.dhammastudygroup.org/audio/2 ... m-b-01.mp3
Related to what, exactly, Kevin?
The right path and the wrong path.

Kevin

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tiltbillings
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by tiltbillings » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:46 pm

Virgo wrote:
Ben wrote:
Virgo wrote:This is a good related talk:

http://www.dhammastudygroup.org/audio/2 ... m-b-01.mp3
Related to what, exactly, Kevin?
The right path and the wrong path.

Kevin
Don't be stingy with your words. What is the right path and what is the wrong path?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Virgo
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Virgo » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:49 pm

Mr Man wrote:Hi Virgo
Perhaps you could bring what you took from the talk to the discusion?
Very often we take akusala for kusala. Is there really calm or is it attachment? This is evident in the discussion about metta practice in the talk.

We have so much lobha that we don't even recognize it most of the time. Is that really renunciation? Or is that just developing more subtle akusala?

These are the questions we have to ask ourselves.

Kevin

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Virgo
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Virgo » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:54 pm

tiltbillings wrote: Don't be stingy with your words. What is the right path and what is the wrong path?
One needs to understand magga-paccaya to really understand it.

Kevin

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Mr Man
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Re: The causes for wisdom

Post by Mr Man » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:58 pm

Virgo wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: Don't be stingy with your words. What is the right path and what is the wrong path?
One needs to understand magga-paccaya to really understand it.

Kevin
Virgo
Do you understand it?

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