Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

robertk wrote:13. “First it has to be seen by inference according to the texts. Afterwards it gradually comes to be seen by personal experience when the knowledge of development gets stronger” (Vism-mhþ 790).
As the quote included the actual full reference to the tika (Vism-mhp 790) it is rather unfair to conclude that this is an inaccurate citation .

in the section on the development of vipassana in Vism.xx

13. “First it has to be seen by inference according to the texts. Afterwards it gradually comes to be seen by personal experience when the knowledge of development gets stronger” (Vism-mhþ 790).

ancientbuddhism wrote:

robertk wrote:in the section on the development of vipassana in Vism.xx

13. “First it has to be seen by inference according to the texts. Afterwards it gradually comes to be seen by personal experience when the knowledge of development gets stronger” (Vism-mhþ 790).

So says Buddhaghosa.

kirk5a wrote: So says the commentary to the Visuddhimagga. Page 639 of the PDF version by Bhikkhu Nanamoli.

robertk wrote:13. “First it has to be seen by inference according to the texts. Afterwards it gradually comes to be seen by personal experience when the knowledge of development gets stronger” (Vism-mhþ 790).
As the quote included the actual full reference to the tika (Vism-mhp 790) it is rather unfair to conclude that this is an inaccurate citation .

• [COMPREHENSION OF THE MATERIAL]
  22. While comprehending materiality he should see how materiality is generated,[13] that is to say, how this materiality is generated by the four causes beginning with kamma. Herein, when materiality is being generated in any being, it is first generated from kamma. For at the actual moment of rebirthlinking of a child in the womb, first thirty instances of materiality are generated in the triple continuity, in other words, the decads of physical [heart-]basis, body, and sex. And those are generated at the actual instant of the rebirth-linking consciousness’s arising. And as at the instant of its arising, so too at the instant of its presence and at the instant of its dissolution.

• 13. “First it has to be seen by inference according to the texts. Afterwards it gradually comes to be seen by personal experience when the knowledge of development gets stronger” (Vism-mhṭ 790).

Contemporary Buddhist literature commonly conveys two ideas about pañña that have become almost axioms in the popular understanding of Buddhism, The first is that pañña is exclusively nonconceptual and nondiscursive, a type of cognition that defies all the laws of logical thought; the second, that pañña arises spontaneously, through an act of pure intuition as sudden and instantaneous as a brilliant flash of lightning. These two ideas about pañña are closely connected. If pañña defies all the laws of thought, it cannot be approached by any type of conceptual activity but can arise only when the rational, discriminative, conceptual activity of the mind has been stultified. And this stopping of conceptualization, somewhat like the demolition of a building, must be a rapid one, an undermining of thought not previously prepared for by any gradual maturation of understanding. Thus, in the popular understanding of Buddhism, pañña defies rationality and easily slides off into "crazy wisdom," an incomprehensible, mindboggling way of relating to the world that dances at the thin edge between super-rationality and madness.

Such ideas about pañña receive no support at all from the teachings of the Nikayas, which, are consistently sane, lucid, and sober, To take the two points in reverse order: First, far from arising spontaneously, pañña in the Nikayas is emphatically conditioned, arisen from an underlying matrix of causes and conditions. And second, pañña is not bare intuition, but a careful, discriminative understanding that at certain stages involves precise conceptual operations. Pañña is directed to specific domains of understanding. These domains, known in the Pali commentaries as "the soil of wisdom" (paññabhumi), must be thoroughIy investigated and mastered through conceptual understanding before direct, nonconceptual insight can effectively accomplish its work. To master them requires analysis, discrimination, and discernment. One must be able to abstract from the overwhelming mass of facts certain basic patterns fundamental to all experience and use these patterns as templates for close contemplation of one's own experience

robertk wrote:" Pañña is directed to specific domains of understanding. These domains, known in the Pali commentaries as "the soil of wisdom" (paññabhumi), must be thoroughIy investigated and mastered through conceptual understanding before direct, nonconceptual insight can effectively accomplish its work. To master them requires analysis, discrimination, and discernment. One must be able to abstract from the overwhelming mass of facts certain basic patterns fundamental to all experience and use these patterns as templates for close contemplation of one's own experience

If I am walking with the firm resolution that I will sit to meditate on the cushion as soon as I arrive home, and I suddenly feel a bowel movement, I will have a “Meditation Vs Defecation” dichotomy, no matter if you call it “false”. At that instant, my mind would contrast the two things as being opposed, entirely different, and with no additional options. Perhaps a moment later I could figure out a third option like meditating while sitting at the WC, and then the dichotomy would vanish.

SDC wrote:Kitz, I tried to ask you in another thread, but I think you missed it - what is the source of your signature? I love that line.

Strive ardently,oh man,& burn! Purity comes from burning away the dross.Gold must pass through a crucible in order to be refined.

robertk wrote:I saw this on another thread today.

If I am walking with the firm resolution that I will sit to meditate on the cushion as soon as I arrive home, and I suddenly feel a bowel movement, I will have a “Meditation Vs Defecation” dichotomy, no matter if you call it “false”. At that instant, my mind would contrast the two things as being opposed, entirely different, and with no additional options. Perhaps a moment later I could figure out a third option like meditating while sitting at the WC, and then the dichotomy would vanish.

What is the answer...

Furthermore, when going forward & returning, he makes himself fully alert; when looking toward & looking away... when bending & extending his limbs... when carrying his outer cloak, his upper robe & his bowl... when eating, drinking, chewing, & savoring... when urinating & defecating... when walking, standing, sitting, falling asleep, waking up, talking, & remaining silent, he makes himself fully alert.

I've been finding that when I maintain mindfulness throughout the day, the sense of "no-self" quickly arises which then leads to aversion. I believe this stems from boredom (the mind enjoys escaping into fantasy) as well as disorientation/confusion from sense of no self. The sense of no self feels like (or leads to?) a mild sense of dissociation, like being in a dream. Incidentally, I practice lu