Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

MN 109 wrote:Then, in the mind of a certain bhikkhu this thought arose: “So, it seems, material form is not self, feeling is not self, perception is not self, formations are not self, consciousness is not self. What self, then, will actions done by the not-self affect?”

nrose619 wrote:If the "self" is an illusion what receives the results of kamma?

"'The one who acts is the one who experiences [the result of the act]' amounts to the eternalist statement, 'Existing from the very beginning, stress is self-made.'

'The one who acts is someone other than the one who experiences' amounts to the annihilationist statement, 'For one existing harassed by feeling, stress is other-made.'

Avoiding these two extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma via the middle:

From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications.
From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness.
From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form.
From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media.
From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact.
From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling.
From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving.
From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance.
From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming.
From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth.
From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.

"Now from the remainderless fading & cessation of that very ignorance comes the cessation of fabrications. From the cessation of fabrications comes the cessation of consciousness. From the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of name-&-form. From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of the six sense media. From the cessation of the six sense media comes the cessation of contact. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling. From the cessation of feeling comes the cessation of craving. From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging/ sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of stress & suffering."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"'The one who acts is the one who experiences [the result of the act]

SDC wrote:Looking for a "what" is just the same as if you were to say that a self receives the results. Although you have removed the idea of self, the mind continues to force some concept to be the receiver. Why? Because logic says there is supposed to be an answer to that question.

The way I understand it, the results will come about in experience. Who's experience? What's experience? Going that extra step to look for that answer will only lead to confusion. There is experience and the results of kamma come about in that experience.

Just the way I see it. Hope this helps.

nrose619 wrote:what is "who" if "self" is an illusion?

nibbuti wrote:

nrose619 wrote:what is "who" if "self" is an illusion?

The question "what is 'who'" is not valid since no 'somebody' was mentioned before (just a who-statement that the Buddha rejected, providing an alternative).

Please read the link above carefully friend.

pulga wrote:The experience of the relationship between kamma and vipaka is founded upon and derived from phassa, a description of which itself is derived upon phassa (cf. MN18. ‘‘So vatāvuso, cakkhusmim sati rūpe sati cakkhuviññāne sati phassapaññattim paññāpessatīti – thānametam vijjati. .... So vatāvuso, cakkhusmim asati rūpe asati cakkhuviññāne asati phassapaññattim paññāpessatīti – netam thānam vijjati.") The first-person perspective is prior to and an aspect (i.e. a part) of any third-person description of phenomena. In its simpliest form it is merely the bodily presence of the phenomena, but once the mind -- the patisarana of the other faculties (cf. MN43) -- comes into play, consolidating what is bodily present into a single, particular lived moment, a proliferation of images -- most of which are in the background of experience and unattended to -- comes to determine (sankharoti) -- to define -- our present situation in all its complexity. But note that while our presence in samsara is contigent upon phassa, samsara itself is the result of our appropriating the first-person perspective: our presence in the world makes "sense", but it is derivative, a transcedency contigent upon what is more primitive. (We cannot experience a cube without looking at one of its sides.)

nrose619 wrote:If the "self" is an illusion what receives the results of kamma?

all the best,
-Nick

nrose619 wrote:If the "self" is an illusion what receives the results of kamma?

all the best,
-Nick

Bakmoon wrote:

nrose619 wrote:If the "self" is an illusion what receives the results of kamma?

all the best,
-Nick

I think that there is some confusion here about what the teaching of Anatta actually means. A lot of people think it means "I don't exist" but that's not quite right. It means something more along the lines of "My identity is only a concept, and not part of ultimate reality." The things that make a person up are real, but they are all impermanent and arise and cease, just like everything else in this conditioned world. There is no underlying "core" to a person that remains unchanged.