Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

Just as… the great ocean is vast, boundless, fills not up for all
of the streams that flow into it. Precisely so Nibbæna is vast,
boundless, fills not up for all of the living beings that pass
thereunto.

Good, Reverend Nægasena! It is even so! I agree absolutely!

the great ocean is vast, boundless, fill not up for all
of the streams that flow into it.

SarathW wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am I am reading a book and found the following interpretation for Nirvana.

Page 29 of:
http://www.dhammaweb.net/books/Dr_Walpo ... Taught.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An Arahant after his death is often compared to a fire gone out when the
supply of wood is over, or to the flame of a lamp gone out when the wick and oil are
finished. Here it should be clearly and distinctly understood, without any confusion,
that what is compared to a flame or a fire gone out is not Nirvana, but the 'being'
composed of the Five Aggregates who realized Nirvana. This point has to be
emphasized because many people, even some great scholars, have misunderstood
and misinterpreted this simile as referring to Nirvana. Nirvana is never compared to
a fire or a lamp gone out.

Is this how you understand it?

justindesilva wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:52 am

SarathW wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:38 am I am reading a book and found the following interpretation for Nirvana.
...

mikenz66 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:59 am Bhikkhu Ñānananda has a transcribed talk: Nibbāna and The Fire Simile that discusses some of the issues, in his characteristic direct approach.
https://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/

Ñānananda wrote:According to the Buddha the totality of existence is
comparable to a fire. It is a fire which, as a rule, is dependent on
some fuel or other, which is called 'upādāna' – the term for
grasping as well as for fuel. A fire grasps, grabs, seizes or holds
on to the fuel which it consumes. Its extinction – the proverbial
'going out' – is Nibbāna. For the Buddha, nibbāna is not a
destination after death. The most telling evidence we get is his
lion's roar in the Udumbarika Sãhanāda Sutta.
...

Ñānananda wrote: .... It is this simile of the whirlpool that holds the answer to the
question about the after-death state of the arahant.

The answer is already implicit in the statement: 'The fire
has gone out.' How ridiculous it is to conclude that the fire goes [7]
somewhere when it goes out. If one asks whether the
extinguished fire has gone to the East or West or North or South,
it is a foolish question. If something exists depending on causes
and conditions, when those causes and conditions are removed,
it has to cease. This truth is implicit in the dictum 'bhavanirodho [8]
nibbānam'. 'Cessation of existence is extinction (or Nibbāna).'
The cessation of existence itself is Nibbāna. Apart from this
there is no other Nibbāna. What the Buddha points out to us is
the fact that this Nibbāna is to be realized here and now.

[7] There is a flush of Buddhist literature thriving in the
West which attempts to interpret this fire simile in the
light of the Vedic myth that the extinguished fire 'goes
into hiding'. Though the Buddha succeeded in
convincing the Brahmin interlocutors of the
dependently arisen nature of fire by the reductio-ad-
absurdum method, these scholars seem to be impervious
to his arguments. What is worse, misinterpretations
have even sought refuge in blatant mis-translations of
sacred texts.

[8] The term 'extinction' is anathema to the West in general.
Perhaps as a euphemism, 'extinguishment' might be
'passable'. But rather than playing with the 'fire-simile' it
is better to accept the obvious conclusions, willy nilly.

[7] There is a flush of Buddhist literature thriving in the
West which attempts to interpret this fire simile in the
light of the Vedic myth that the extinguished fire 'goes
into hiding

robertk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:06 am

[7] There is a flush of Buddhist literature thriving in the
West which attempts to interpret this fire simile in the
light of the Vedic myth that the extinguished fire 'goes
into hiding

Did he mention which authors believe this? I am only aware of Thanissaro promoting this idea

To appreciate the rebelliousness of these passages and
many others like it, one needs to understand the context in which
they were written. The monastic Sangha in general is quite
dogmatic and traditionalist, not entirely welcoming of
challenging views. When the Nibbāna sermons were delivered at
the Nissarana Vanaya, Bhante Ñāṇananda had the backing of his
teacher, the illustrious Elder Ven. Matara Sri Ñāṇārāma
Mahathera, who not only allowed him the freedom but invited
and encouraged him to express his radical views. Even then he
was criticized by many of his colleagues. Those views were a
main reason that led to Bhante Ñāṇananda’s departure from the
Nissarana Vanaya after the death of Ven. Ñāṇārāma. He left on
his own accord, and set up a small monastery in Devalegama:
Pothgulgala Aranya. It was there that I first met him in November
last year.

Etaṃ santaṃ, etaṃ paṇītaṃ, yadidaṃ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho
sabbūpadhipaṭinissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṃ.

"This is peaceful, this is excellent, namely the stilling of all preparations, the
relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation,
extinction".

At first, for many reasons, I hesitated to accept this invitation for a serious
task, but then, as the venerable Great Preceptor repeatedly encouraged me on
this, I gave some thought as to how best I could set about doing it. And it
occurred to me that it would be best if I could address these sermons directly to
the task before us in this Nissarana Vanaya, and that is meditative attention,
rather than dealing with those deep controversial suttas in academic isolation.
And that is why I have selected the above quotation as the theme for the entire
set of sermons, hoping that it would help create the correct atmosphere of
meditative attention.

Etaṃ santaṃ etaṃ paṇītaṃ, yadidaṃ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho
sabbūpadhipaṭinissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṃ.
"This is peaceful, this is excellent, namely the stilling of all preparations, the
relinquishment of all assets, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation,
extinction".

This in fact is a meditation subject in itself, a kammaṭṭhāna. This is the
reflection on the peace of Nibbāna, upasamānussati.

Therefore , if this is true , then the extinguishing of bhava , the disintegration of five aggregates , does not imply there is No state remains since it is perceivable .

mikenz66 wrote:

Ñānananda wrote: The cessation of existence itself is Nibbāna.