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Re: Do you believe in Mara

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:55 am
by tiltbillings
BlueLotus wrote:I
If Mara is symbol for our own craving how did he appear to enlightened ones? Doesn't make sense.
And how do the arahants handle Mara when he appears?

Re: Do you believe in Mara

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:31 pm
by BlueLotus
tiltbillings wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:I
If Mara is symbol for our own craving how did he appear to enlightened ones? Doesn't make sense.
And how do the arahants handle Mara when he appears?
They handle it quite well. BUT if Mara is just bad mental states how can bad mental states arise in enlightened minds? They have no bad mental states like desire and anger.

Another thing is Mara is once in Ven moggallana's belly. Doesn't make sense to say bad mental states came to his belly. :jumping: It is funny anyway.

Re: Do you believe in Mara

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:52 pm
by tiltbillings
BlueLotus wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:I
If Mara is symbol for our own craving how did he appear to enlightened ones? Doesn't make sense.
And how do the arahants handle Mara when he appears?
They handle it quite well. BUT if Mara is just bad mental states how can bad mental states arise in enlightened minds? They have no bad mental states like desire and anger.
But they have bodies and conditioning.

Re: Do you believe in Mara

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:55 pm
by BlueLotus
tiltbillings wrote:But they have bodies and conditioning.
Can you please explain what you say more?

Re: Do you believe in Mara

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:12 pm
by LonesomeYogurt
BlueLotus wrote:Maybe the sutta are not completely rights as devarupan said.
It's not that the suttas aren't right. All the suttas are "right" and "true." It's just that they aren't always meant to be taken literally.

Take the Buddha's birth, for example. In a few suttas, it says that he walked immediately after birth and that lotus flowers grew up underneath each footstep. Do you think that really happened? Probably not, but that doesn't mean that the sutta is lying, trying to convince you that it actually happened. No, it's far more about using metaphor and myth to show us how pure and beautiful the Blessed One was. The question isn't "Did Mara really appear as a real demon to these people?" The question is "How did these people deal with the temptation?" That's what is important, not the truth value of a certain demon.

Does that make sense? The suttas aren't lying to you, they're just not interested in being a science textbook.

Re: Do you believe in Mara

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:08 am
by manas
Hi,

my preferred option was not there for me to vote on: "I think Mara is both metaphorical AND, sometimes, a literal being as described in some suttas".

:anjali:

Re: Do you believe in Mara

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:31 am
by Yana
hi,

I think Mara as my own personal defilement but am not sure if Mara exists as real devil. But if Mara does exist i think getting rid of my own defilement is still more important. :anjali: