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Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:37 am
by Assaji
Mr Man wrote:Dmytro, The Rohingya have generaly been settled in Myanmar for many decades. They, for the most, are not recent imigrants from Bangladesh they are not bengali.
Historically, they are recent immigrants, though indeed the new generation has been born in Myanmar.
Myanmar it their home and they deserve to be recognised as a distinct ethnic group within that country.
Their demands are more extensive:

"Rohingya demands the followings:

To give them nationality status and regard as an ethnicity;
To announce Buthi Tong and Maung Taw as Rohingya National Home;
To give them 40% control of the state government.

In fact, their demands are just the enforcements of their decisions from the first conference. ACP stated the demands would be considered even though they cannot be given at the moment. However, both ALP and ACP had to accept their demands for the reason that they are very strong. The regional conference agreed.To impose Rohingya Party as the only organization of Muslims in Arakan State. To give them western parts of Maung Taw and Buthi Tong, Naung Chaung and upper parts of Naung Cahaung as their home land. And the chairman of the military committee of the united front must be from Rohingya."

http://www.facebook.com/notes/may-thing ... 7478288810" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:25 am
by Mr Man
Dmytro wrote:
Historically, they are recent immigrants, though indeed the new generation has been born in Myanmar.
It is more than one generation. I would imagine that vast majority of the Rohingya population were born in Myanmar.
Their demands are more extensive:

"Rohingya demands the followings:
These demands should not negate the, dare I say it, "rights" of the individual.

Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:18 am
by Doshin
drifting cloud wrote:I am a little disappointed that this thread has garnered so little interest - ...
No posts, does not conclude no interest. Personally I don't write, because I don't want to point fingers and accusing others of doing bad things.

I try to practice my right speech, by not grabbing the keyboard and display anger at somebody I don't know, in matters I don't have the needed insight into.

However I have much interest in the matter, and I'm almost out of salt.
drifting cloud wrote:... I had thought that orders of ordained monks advocating ethnic cleansing in Burma's Arakan State might have evoked some kind of reaction - I realize, of course, there are finer points of Pali translation to be endlessly debated without conclusion, but surely the posters here have some thoughts?
I find your sarcasm, to be a kind of anger. And by anger you don't achieve anything (good).

_/\_

Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:27 pm
by Assaji
Mr Man wrote:These demands should not negate the, dare I say it, "rights" of the individual.
IMHO, the Western concept of supremacy of individual rights is somewhat self-contradictory and utopian.
There's often a chasm between declarated rights and actual possibilities.
In practice, this concept leads to denial of usage of any type of force, then to crisis due to inaction, and then to even more forceful outcomes.
For example, multiculturalism has spectacularly failed in Europe, and now strict cultural laws are adopted.
In USA, president Obama regularly signs the list of Islamic fundamentalists to be killed in Pakistan.
Even if the individual rights concept has some advantages, there's no reason to impose it in the East (including Myanmar) by pressure.
I find more useful the concept of common good by Plato, especially since it is consonant with Buddha's teaching.

Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:03 pm
by Mawkish1983
Dmytro wrote:multiculturalism has spectacularly failed in Europe
No it hasn't.

Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:19 pm
by Ytrog
Mawkish1983 wrote:
Dmytro wrote:multiculturalism has spectacularly failed in Europe
No it hasn't.
I agree. Some people here for their own gain say it failed , but it hasn't failed at all in my experience.

Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:05 am
by plwk

Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:59 am
by LonesomeYogurt
Whoever posted such a video is probably deeply hurt, confused and upset. The correct Buddhist response is not to get angry but instead to wish him or her freedom from suffering while reflecting on the sorrow they create for themselves through such disrespect.

I'm not implying that you are attempting to incite anger or hatred towards Muslims. However, such videos can be distressing reminders of the feelings some have towards the Buddhist community. It is important that, when our path is attacked so blatantly, we make sure to keep the simile of the saw in mind and wish our critics and detractors only the best. It is easy to fall into a reactionary "defender of the Dhamma" attitude that ultimately leads only to more discord.

Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:13 pm
by Anagarika
It must be the case that when there is human conflict, ethnic cleansing efforts, and intertribal conflicts, that true Buddhists always support the path that leads away from conflict, strife, and suffering. Buddhist monks as a rule should be an exception to the typical response of intracountry ethnic problems, and should promote a plan that leads to less conflict and suffering. If there are cases where there are Bhikkhus supporting the ethnic cleansing of Rohingya from Burma, and allowing them to suffer further by denying them aid relief, then these actions are contrary to the Dhamma, and they should answer to all right thinking Buddhists about their conduct.

There is a solution to the issues facing the Rohingya, Burma and the interethnic concerns that does not involve further violence and suffering. The solution may not be apparent, but it does fall to leaders like Aung San Suu Kyi to speak out against violence in this issue, and promote a solution that allows for international assistance to what really is a problem that affects all of us as members of the human race.

It's appropriate for the Buddhist community to excoriate and oppose the Chinese government for the suffering and destruction imposed on Tibet; by the same measure, we must also resist oppression and destruction in Burma, in whatever form it takes.

Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:05 pm
by Assaji
News that Western media won't tell you:

Turkey’s Arakan Access Shows Govt Sincere: UN
http://www.irrawaddy.org/archives/11560" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Curfews Cut Back in Arakan State as Tensions Ease
http://www.irrawaddy.org/?slide=curfews ... sions-ease" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And what they would tell:
http://www.channel4.com/news/inside-bur ... dden-camps" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:00 am
by Kim OHara
With this sort of thing in mind, I think it would be good if everyone got their news from Al Jazeera on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays and from CNN on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays.
:coffee:
Kim

Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:01 am
by manas
There's a good reason why the Mainstream Media all sound much the same, and seem to be pushing the same underlying agenda:
The Associated Press is an American news agency. The AP is a cooperative owned by its contributing newspapers, radio and television stations in the United States, which both contribute stories to the AP and use material written by its staff journalists. Many newspapers and broadcasters outside the United States are AP subscribers, paying a fee to use AP material without being contributing members of the cooperative.As of 2005, the news collected by the AP is published and republished by more than 1,700 newspapers, in addition to more than 5,001 television and radio broadcasters. The photograph library of the AP consists of over 10 million images. The Associated Press operates 243 news bureaus, and it serves at least 120 countries, with an international staff located all over the world.
If you live in a modern 'Western' democracy, next time you read the paper, take a look at the bottom for the source of almost every single news report, regardless of the particular newspaper or it's parent company: it will say either AP or Reuters. And so, when I read or listen to MSM (Mainstream Media) I always ask, why have they selected this as newsworthy? How does it make me feel? Angry or sad? (two common reactions). How does this report compare with previous reports on the same issue? etc etc. I find there is usually a reason for what they print. Like a steady 'drip, drip' they gently guide and mold what the masses think, without them even knowing it. Thus I hear quite similar views from many well-intentioned but simple folk in my local area, and I can trace much of their world-view from a particularly low-grade tabloid we have here in Melbourne (yes, it's a Murdoch paper). The amazing thing is, the people whose opinions have been moulded in such a way think that they themselves independently arrived at their views; they don't see how they have been manipulated.

So as has been pointed out here previously, I would be asking who is reporting on these massacres, and what their underlying agenda might be in reporting it - and keeping that generous handful of salt near at hand.

Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:56 am
by Skeptic
It was very interesting to see the change of attitude of western media during Sri Lanka civil war. For the most part of the war, western media was reporting in favour of Sinhalese and against Tamils, portraying them as terrorists. But when Sinhalese started to recieve Chinese support, the western media started to report against Sinhalese, making completly biased documentaries and even support the idea of Tamil Tigers that Sri Lanka shouldn't be unified.

Regarding the confilct in Myanmar, even media from muslim countries is more objective about it than western media is.

Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:32 am
by Mr Man
Skeptic wrote:But when Sinhalese started to recieve Chinese support, the western media started to report against Sinhalese, making completly biased documentaries....
Like this one?
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/sri- ... fields/4od" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Rohingya Massacres, Theravada Complicity?

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:48 am
by Skeptic
Yes, I had this one in mind. During the war in Balkans there was much more killings and ethnic cleansing than in Sri Lanka, but in beginning nobody cared about it. Western media started to report about it when many thousands of people were already killed. In Sinhalese dominated areas there are many ethnicaly mixed areas full of Tamils, just look at Colombo for example. This would be impossible in the Balkans during the war, people of other ethnicity would be mostly expelled or killed.

My point is that western media started to report about Sinhalese crimes, and ignore the Tamil crimes for political reasons. War crimes just happened all the time from both sides, but the emphasis in reporting about them was changed. And there is kind of western supremacist bias in media, portraying both Sinhalese and Tamils as wild Asians, while ignoring the fact that in the Europe there was much worse and brutal ethnic clansing not so long time ago.