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Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:03 pm
by Thaibebop
Mr Man wrote:
Thaibebop wrote:I am relaying on my memory but I believe there is a allegory in Buddhist literature about luring children out of a burning house who refuse to leave. The parent offers them toys, I think, even though there are none and that tricks them out of the house.
That would be the Lotus Sutra.
Ah, thank you. :namaste:

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:13 pm
by Thaibebop
gavesako wrote:Buddhists March in Bangkok to Speak Out to the World to Stop Disrespecting Buddha
The KnowingBuddha Foundation is preparing a major march in Bangkok on 30 June, to show their respect for Buddha and to show how so many are disrespecting Buddha.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2012 ... 635673.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There is something about this that worries me. While Buddhism is vastly different form Abrahamic religions many of the more militant forms of these religions have their foundation in a belief that their faith is under attack and being disrespected. This foundation seems to be starting down this road. Who will hear of their movement? Why should they care about their desires? Trying to control what other people do goes against everything I have learned from Buddhism, so why are they bothering. Also, if no one listens, what then? It seems better to simply teach those closer to their community these values and let the rest of the world come around in time. With so many people witnessing religious violence and hatred from the Abrahamic religions many are tried and looking for other sources of strength. Wouldn't Buddhism be one of those that they turn to?

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:59 pm
by cooran
Buddhists March in Bangkok to Speak Out to the World to Stop Disrespecting Buddha
The KnowingBuddha Foundation is preparing a major march in Bangkok on 30 June, to show their respect for Buddha and to show how so many are disrespecting Buddha.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2012 ... 635673.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think this is very likely to cause mainly negative, not positive, reactions in for those reading about or seeing the ''parade'' - and turn away from Buddhism those who had been interested in learning more about it.

with metta
Chris

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:03 pm
by reflection
Now how about poor Ananda? :D

http://www.60by80.com/madrid/bars-clubs/ananda.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:35 am
by Sylvester
gavesako wrote:That is simple: The four-faced Brahma is a symbol of good luck and prosperity on the worldly level. Nothing to do with Buddhism particularly.
That may be true, Bhante, but practically all the Thai Buddhists I am acquainted with, know how to distinguish this particular Buddhist Brahma from the Puranic Brahma. Granted that the Thai Buddhists I know are more well read, and they identify this Brahma as Sahampati (well documented in the Vinaya and SN). Still, the distinction does exist, and it does not serve any purpose to paper over the Thai Buddhist belief that devas and brahmas from the Pali Canon do fulfill a supplicatory role in worldly matters. And unless one argues that the Pancabali Sutta were a spurious addition into the AN by back-sliding Buddhists/Hindu infiltrators, the Pali Canon does have teachings for lay people who are not very into Nirodha.

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:46 am
by Sylvester
cooran wrote:
Buddhists March in Bangkok to Speak Out to the World to Stop Disrespecting Buddha
The KnowingBuddha Foundation is preparing a major march in Bangkok on 30 June, to show their respect for Buddha and to show how so many are disrespecting Buddha.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2012 ... 635673.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think this is very likely to cause mainly negative, not positive, reactions in for those reading about or seeing the ''parade'' - and turn away from Buddhism those who had been interested in learning more about it.

with metta
Chris
I agree. Parading "Buddhist" patighanusaya for the heathens is a sure-fire way to turn them away.

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:59 am
by Viscid
Buddhists March in Bangkok to Speak Out to the World to Stop Disrespecting Buddha
The KnowingBuddha Foundation is preparing a major march in Bangkok on 30 June, to show their respect for Buddha and to show how so many are disrespecting Buddha.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2012 ... 635673.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Geez, this sounds like Buddhist extremism. Scary stuff. Buddhists shouldn't be enforcing their religious views on non-Buddhists.

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:08 am
by gavesako
In Thailand there is a law preventing people from "tarnishing Buddhism". Recently this case of a rogue iconoclastic monk was in the news:
THAILAND - Phetchabun's Lom Sak Court yesterday read an Appeals Court decision sentencing Phra Kasem Ajinasilo of Nam Nao district's Wat Sam Yaek monastery to a suspended two year jail term and a Bt20,000 (S$822) fine for tarnishing Buddhism.

In November 2008, the Phetchabun Buddhism Office filed a lawsuit against Phra Kasem, whose civilian name is Duangphaeng Duanmak.

It accused him of stepping on the base of a Buddha statue, slapping the statue's face and putting a sign on the brass statue urging people not to worship it because it wasn't Lord Buddha.

The lower court dismissed the case on March 17, 2009.

Phra Kasem appeared in a YouTube clip and a TV news report behaving in an allegedly inappropriate manner, leading the Royal Forestry Department to probe his monastery's use of forestland.

The department decided not to let him use the location any longer, while the Sangha of Udon Thani, where the monk was originally ordained, last October ordered him to leave the monkhood.

Phra Kasem, however, continued to practice as a monk.

http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BN ... 33368.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is the video clip showing inappropriate behaviour of Luang Por Kasem:

หลวงพ่อ เกษม อยากดังหรืออยากดับ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL4FnquxesA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It seems that he got a suspended sentence in the end.

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:21 am
by piotr
Hi Sylvester,
Sylvester wrote:And unless one argues that the Pancabali Sutta were a spurious addition into the AN by back-sliding Buddhists/Hindu infiltrators, the Pali Canon does have teachings for lay people who are not very into Nirodha.
Could you provide a number of this sutta (or PTS page number)? It's unknow to me. Thanks.

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:11 pm
by DNS
gavesako wrote: It seems that he got a suspended sentence in the end.
Hi Bhante,

Yes, that was very disrespectful, but it was more than that. It was violent; kicking the table with alms food on it, slapping his foot on the table, kicking the table some more, kicking a chair and at one point kicking the chair over -- this is violence, imo, not just disrespect.

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:43 pm
by gavesako
One more opinion on the showing of respect:

Don’t put your Buddha statue in the toilet. Amazing Thailand and Buddhism


http://isaan-life.blogspot.co.uk/2012/0 ... oilet.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:03 pm
by Alobha
gavesako wrote:
Here is the video clip showing inappropriate behaviour of Luang Por Kasem:

หลวงพ่อ เกษม อยากดังหรืออยากดับ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL4FnquxesA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It seems that he got a suspended sentence in the end.
Seeing a case like this, maybe i wouldn't be the worst monk once i fulfull the requirements for ordination in a few years *phew!*
I just looked up the Buddha Bhikkini thing and i can understand the problem. Raising awareness for the do's and don't seems plausible but one shouldn't expect to stop these things from happening. The Buddha Bhikkini is just a piece of cloth. The real downfall, the real damage starts when people get angry over just a piece of cloth and shout or attack each other. When people let their kindness and calmness be destroyed by these things, that's when it starts to really go wrong.

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:11 am
by Sylvester
piotr wrote:Hi Sylvester,
Sylvester wrote:And unless one argues that the Pancabali Sutta were a spurious addition into the AN by back-sliding Buddhists/Hindu infiltrators, the Pali Canon does have teachings for lay people who are not very into Nirodha.
Could you provide a number of this sutta (or PTS page number)? It's unknow to me. Thanks.
Hi piotr

Apologies. In my haste, I misnamed the Sutta. The pancabali are discussed in the Pattakamma Sutta, AN 4.61/AN 4.2.2.1. It is also discussed in the Adiya Sutta, AN 5.1.5.1. Among the pancabali is the devatabali - offerings to devas.

The first sutta mentions this in the context of a layman's practice for the sake of cattāro dhammā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā dullabhā lokasmiṃ, the 4 worldly pleasures of wealth, fame, long life and a heavenly rebirth.

While it's not extraordinary as a standard Buddhist message to lay-people, what's unusual is the fact that the sutta is addressed to Anathapindika, plus the pancabali is said to be of an ariyasavaka's practice. However, it is not altogether clear if the pancabali is the way to the attainment of the 4 worldly pleasures, since the passage follows the section on the 4 conducive practices. That section might simply be descriptive, rather than prescriptive.

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:05 am
by mikenz66
Hi Sylvester,

Thanks. Here are some links:
Sylvester wrote:The pancabali are discussed in the Pattakamma Sutta, AN 4.61/AN 4.2.2.1.

First Sutta on this page: http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... ggo-e.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sylvester wrote: It is also discussed in the Adiya Sutta, AN 5.1.5.1. Among the pancabali is the devatabali - offerings to devas.
I guess you mean AN 5.41: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali:
Mike

Re: Respect for Buddha images and offensive use of symbols

Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:31 am
by Sylvester
Thanks Mike! Didn't realise that it was available on ATI.

Yet more secular teachings from the Buddha can be found in the Sarandada Sutta, AN 7.1.3.1. Among the 7 practices taught to promote the longevity of the Vajjian republic, offerings (bali) to their cetiyas was practice #6. A corresponding passage to the Sarandada Sutta can be found in DN 16.

Hmm, I wonder if that is the reason why veneration of the lak-meung (indakhīla/city post) figures in some aspects of Thai Buddhist practice... :stirthepot: