inherent goodness

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
befriend
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inherent goodness

Post by befriend » Sun May 27, 2012 4:38 pm

i was thinking that if when anyone does a wholsome action they feel a sense of well being afterwards. doing good deeds, does not make one feel neutral or negative.
so wouldnt that make it that our nature is predisposed for goodness. so my point is that, if doing good equate with involuntarily feeling good, shouldnt that make our natures good? what is your take on this? metta
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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hanzze_
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Re: inherent goodness

Post by hanzze_ » Sun May 27, 2012 4:53 pm

How does that feeling good appear, what is its quality? Everybody does good from his opinion. I never had seen somebody not thinking that he does good.

What might be inherent is the subtle all embracing desire to make things really good, which is in some kind imprisoned by what is feeling good.

Ever experienced some neutrality after a deed and I don't mean defuse.
Last edited by hanzze_ on Sun May 27, 2012 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dhamma_newb
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Re: inherent goodness

Post by dhamma_newb » Sun May 27, 2012 4:55 pm

Hi befriend,

Have you ever heard of reciprocal altruism? Check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_altruism

Image
The watched mind brings happiness.
Dhp 36

I am larger and better than I thought. I did not know I held so much goodness.
Walt Whitman

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hanzze_
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Re: inherent goodness

Post by hanzze_ » Sun May 27, 2012 4:57 pm

That is a good diagram to show that both of that way are not the way to liberation.

befriend
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Re: inherent goodness

Post by befriend » Sun May 27, 2012 5:06 pm

im thinking more along the lines of buddha nature. wouldnt it be buddha nature to have or bodies minds and spirits becoming flooded with endorphins and warm feelings after we have done something wholesome? clearly our bodies and minds want to let us know that being kusala is where we feel most at home in our bodies. only a warped mind enmeshed in delusion would find solace in akusala and they would not be able to feel comfort even in there own beds.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

dhamma_newb
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Re: inherent goodness

Post by dhamma_newb » Sun May 27, 2012 5:10 pm

befriend wrote:im thinking more along the lines of buddha nature. wouldnt it be buddha nature to have or bodies minds and spirits becoming flooded with endorphins and warm feelings after we have done something wholesome? clearly our bodies and minds want to let us know that being kusala is where we feel most at home in our bodies. only a warped mind enmeshed in delusion would find solace in akusala and they would not be able to feel comfort even in there own beds.
What is buddha nature?
The watched mind brings happiness.
Dhp 36

I am larger and better than I thought. I did not know I held so much goodness.
Walt Whitman

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hanzze_
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Re: inherent goodness

Post by hanzze_ » Sun May 27, 2012 5:17 pm

befriend wrote:im thinking more along the lines of buddha nature. wouldnt it be buddha nature to have or bodies minds and spirits becoming flooded with endorphins and warm feelings after we have done something wholesome? clearly our bodies and minds want to let us know that being kusala is where we feel most at home in our bodies. only a warped mind enmeshed in delusion would find solace in akusala and they would not be able to feel comfort even in there own beds.
I don't think that one feeling warm having done a wholesome deed, he just had done a dept. To get free of dept, give joy to a certain level . But you might be right from two aspects. The inherent desire for warm feeling we could call the Buddha Nature as ordinary people sense it. And the inherent desire to seek for peace and coolness, which is mostly hidden but has a total different quality, on a deeper and cleaner level.

As we normally tend to warm feelings, we are easily misunderstand Dana and good deed. That what makes one warm is the normal and needed way of giving and taking, dept and deed, but there are also ways free of dept and deed to leave the warm circle we are feeling so secure.

Of cause such deeds are very important and we have our depts to do them and keep the circle as well as it could be but the teachings of real beneficial deeds goes beyond this way and is of real joy and release.

To understand as well as to learn about this, the "The Lessons of Gratitude" are a perfect explaining about this wheel of the world and the way to use it for spiritual grow and show real gratitude.

As well as the article of "Freedom From Buddha Nature

befriend
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Re: inherent goodness

Post by befriend » Sun May 27, 2012 5:45 pm

dhamma_newb wrote:
befriend wrote:im thinking more along the lines of buddha nature. wouldnt it be buddha nature to have or bodies minds and spirits becoming flooded with endorphins and warm feelings after we have done something wholesome? clearly our bodies and minds want to let us know that being kusala is where we feel most at home in our bodies. only a warped mind enmeshed in delusion would find solace in akusala and they would not be able to feel comfort even in there own beds.
What is buddha nature?

i have practiced zen for more than a year a while ago. the nature of the mind is meditation. when you just sit as they call it and thoughts quiet down, your original nature will appear your mind is naked without thought. you will feel like you need nothing, because the present moment is all there ever is. its kind of hard to describe but when your thoughts are gone, YOU are gone, and there is compassion when thoughts disapear. im not tryin to change anyones beleifs or anything i just thought it was food for thought. that it is our nature to be good, because our bodies react positively to meritorius activity.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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hanzze_
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Re: inherent goodness

Post by hanzze_ » Sun May 27, 2012 5:47 pm

Does this kind of feeling (YOU are gone) feels warm?

befriend
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Re: inherent goodness

Post by befriend » Sun May 27, 2012 6:09 pm

i dont know if i should answer that, it might confuse newcomers to buddhism.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

jason c
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Re: inherent goodness

Post by jason c » Sun May 27, 2012 11:23 pm

befriend wrote:i was thinking that if when anyone does a wholsome action they feel a sense of well being afterwards. doing good deeds, does not make one feel neutral or negative.
so wouldnt that make it that our nature is predisposed for goodness. so my point is that, if doing good equate with involuntarily feeling good, shouldnt that make our natures good? what is your take on this? metta
i was taught to meditate with body sensations, when my thoughts are of a selfish nature my body recieves unpleasant tense sensations, when my thoughts are of a selfless nature my body recieves pleasant sensations, so with this understanding we strive to purify our mind and naturally enjoy a more peaceful life. so i am in agreement with you human nature is inherently good.

completely off topic i'm a beginner on computers and this is the first time i'm using this quote feature and i'm not sure if i've done it correctly, so my apologies if this comes up confusing
metta
jason

befriend
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Re: inherent goodness

Post by befriend » Sun May 27, 2012 11:40 pm

jason c wrote:
befriend wrote:i was thinking that if when anyone does a wholsome action they feel a sense of well being afterwards. doing good deeds, does not make one feel neutral or negative.
so wouldnt that make it that our nature is predisposed for goodness. so my point is that, if doing good equate with involuntarily feeling good, shouldnt that make our natures good? what is your take on this? metta
i was taught to meditate with body sensations, when my thoughts are of a selfish nature my body recieves unpleasant tense sensations, when my thoughts are of a selfless nature my body recieves pleasant sensations, so with this understanding we strive to purify our mind and naturally enjoy a more peaceful life. so i am in agreement with you human nature is inherently good.

completely off topic i'm a beginner on computers and this is the first time i'm using this quote feature and i'm not sure if i've done it correctly, so my apologies if this comes up confusing
metta
jason

yes jason, this is what i was thinking. i think things like comparing the sensations one gets from practicing forgiveness and practicing revenge. one would come to the conclusion that forgiveness is much more soothing and condusive to have a body which is at ease with itself. so in effect morals should come from what is beneficial to self and others, morality should come from direct experience of reality not from God which is what many politicians claim they get there morals from.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

jason c
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Re: inherent goodness

Post by jason c » Mon May 28, 2012 12:10 am

hi befriend,
i questioned christianity all my life, eg; the ten commandments, a list of things you just dont do. i much prefered the buddhas approach observe the precepts. i interpret this as observe yourself if you break a precept. what was the quality of my mind at that time? practicing this i found that my mind was unbalanced and i was suffering, so naturally i corrected my behavior. simple!
metta,
jason

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hanzze_
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Re: inherent goodness

Post by hanzze_ » Mon May 28, 2012 3:12 am

befriend wrote:i dont know if i should answer that, it might confuse newcomers to buddhism.
Be friend,
it was a question in direction of your self and it might answer many things in regard of what is a good deed and what is just greed. Do not worry, it would not confuse, it would put some strange believes a little more in line to the teachings of the Buddha.
befriend wrote:so in effect morals should come from what is beneficial to self and others
Befriend,
you might not see the different of beneficial and the believe what is good for you and others. It's very secure if you see generosity as an act of letting go and conquer your own greed as to seek for helping others. The practice according the teachings of the Buddha is not in a way of helping others as, but to let go till the point where one is really able to help others. While doing it in the correct way, both you and others are have the greatest benefit on the way.
If one does good to get a warm heart in return, that you can be sure that it is not Dana (as part of the practice) but just a good worldly way. What ever lightens, what ever makes one cool is a good indices to go the right way and in accordance of the "inherent" goodness rather that the "inherent" greed.

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Kusala
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Re: inherent goodness

Post by Kusala » Mon May 28, 2012 9:32 am

befriend wrote:i was thinking that if when anyone does a wholsome action they feel a sense of well being afterwards. doing good deeds, does not make one feel neutral or negative.
so wouldnt that make it that our nature is predisposed for goodness. so my point is that, if doing good equate with involuntarily feeling good, shouldnt that make our natures good? what is your take on this? metta
The whole inherent goodness or Buddha nature is a Mahayana concept.
Image

"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

--------------------------------------------
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One,
Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
Leading to liberation, to be experienced individually by the wise. "

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