Maitreya - What do you think?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Re: Maitreya - What do you think?

Post by DNS » Mon May 28, 2012 5:13 pm

In DN 26 (as quoted above) and I believe it is also in the Buddhavamsa, a book of of the KN (fifth Nikaya), which although part of the Suttas, many consider to be a later text.

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Re: Maitreya - What do you think?

Post by Noor » Mon May 28, 2012 5:26 pm

Sounds like the consensus is that another Buddha (Maitreya) will come when the Dharma disappears. Well, that has already happened, wouldn't you say?

"Search for Buddhism in the Internet. How many different ideas are there? How many different explanations are given? Some of them say, “There is no Soul.” In one class of Buddhism they say, “There is no Soul,” and in another class of Buddhism they say, “There is a Soul.”
In one branch of Buddhism they say, “There is no God.” In another branch they say, “There is a God.” So which one is really Buddhism? Did Buddha really say that? Is this what Buddha taught? Which one is his?

We can again see that we have to go back to the prophecies fulfilled. Buddhism is no longer what Buddha taught. Therefore, the coming of the Maitreya is eminent and should be now, because Buddha’s teaching is no longer what Buddha brought to humanity." From http://www.maitreya.org/english/Satsang ... 3_2001.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Maitreya - What do you think?

Post by jason c » Mon May 28, 2012 5:43 pm

Noor wrote:Sounds like the consensus is that another Buddha (Maitreya) will come when the Dharma disappears. Well, that has already happened, wouldn't you say?

"Search for Buddhism in the Internet. How many different ideas are there? How many different explanations are given? Some of them say, “There is no Soul.” In one class of Buddhism they say, “There is no Soul,” and in another class of Buddhism they say, “There is a Soul.”
In one branch of Buddhism they say, “There is no God.” In another branch they say, “There is a God.” So which one is really Buddhism? Did Buddha really say that? Is this what Buddha taught? Which one is his?

We can again see that we have to go back to the prophecies fulfilled. Buddhism is no longer what Buddha taught. Therefore, the coming of the Maitreya is eminent and should be now, because Buddha’s teaching is no longer what Buddha brought to humanity." From http://www.maitreya.org/english/Satsang ... 3_2001.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
maybe, its eckhart tolle?
he seems to be gathering quite a flock, and his teachings seem to be in line with what the buddha taught.
metta,
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Re: Maitreya - What do you think?

Post by DNS » Mon May 28, 2012 5:47 pm

Noor wrote: In one branch of Buddhism they say, “There is no God.” In another branch they say, “There is a God.” So which one is really Buddhism? Did Buddha really say that? Is this what Buddha taught? Which one is his?
Which branch is that? There is no branch of Buddhism that says there is a creator-God. That link is a New Age path, perhaps useful and wholesome for some, but it is not Buddhism.

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Re: Maitreya - What do you think?

Post by DNS » Mon May 28, 2012 5:49 pm

Metteyya/Maitreya does not come until the Dhamma has died out. Today we have copies of the Pali Canon in Pali and numerous other languages. It shows no signs of dying out anytime soon.

The Mahayana and some of the Theravada commentaries place the arrival of Metteya at approximately 5,000 years after the passing of Buddha, which would make it somewhere around the year 4517 which is about 2,500 years from now. The early Theravada discourses hold that there is no set date and that it depends upon when the Dhamma disappears from the world and when the conditions are right, which could be that far off or even longer.

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Re: Maitreya - What do you think?

Post by DNS » Mon May 28, 2012 5:53 pm

Here is a list of Maitreya claimants:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya#M ... _claimants" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It includes L. Ron Hubbard.

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Re: Maitreya - What do you think?

Post by Cittasanto » Mon May 28, 2012 5:57 pm

GraemeR wrote:Greetings

My sister in law is quite interested in this 'Buddha'

To me it seems to be something else to obscure Buddha's teaching.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maitreya" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What have other people heard, what are your views please?

With metta Graham
Hi Graham,
how great is her interest?
the only use of such a mention would probably be as a comforter to those who find it hard to keep in mind the teachings are here and now, not based on some hope.

but on a practicaal level I have heard many times that the name is derived/related to metta, so could also be used as a reminder that when we loose our way, forgetting about the teaching & practice, in order to gain a good fothold back on the horse (so to speak,) metta is a good method to employ. it is also a protective meditation fwiw.

hope this is useful to get her on the right direction.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
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Re: Maitreya - What do you think?

Post by jason c » Mon May 28, 2012 6:08 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:Metteyya/Maitreya does not come until the Dhamma has died out. Today we have copies of the Pali Canon in Pali and numerous other languages. It shows no signs of dying out anytime soon.

The Mahayana and some of the Theravada commentaries place the arrival of Metteya at approximately 5,000 years after the passing of Buddha, which would make it somewhere around the year 4517 which is about 2,500 years from now. The early Theravada discourses hold that there is no set date and that it depends upon when the Dhamma disappears from the world and when the conditions are right, which could be that far off or even longer.
i read somewhere that since the buddha ordained nuns, that time could be cut in half 2500yrs or now. but i do not have acess to this quote. i know goenka teaches that the clock of vipassana has struck, it is time for the teaching to spread. i dunno david the world seems pretty out of touch right now.
metta,
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Re: Maitreya - What do you think?

Post by DNS » Mon May 28, 2012 6:26 pm

jason c wrote: i read somewhere that since the buddha ordained nuns, that time could be cut in half 2500yrs or now. but i do not have acess to this quote. i know goenka teaches that the clock of vipassana has struck, it is time for the teaching to spread. i dunno david the world seems pretty out of touch right now.
According to the Vinaya and the Commentaries, the Dhamma would have lasted only 500 years, but there were more rules added for the nuns, perhaps to appease the male-dominated society and because of that, the Dhamma will last much longer.

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Re: Maitreya - What do you think?

Post by Polar Bear » Mon May 28, 2012 6:38 pm

The whole Metteya/dhamma is dead or dying thing seems about as useful to people following the Buddha's dhamma as horse manure is to people on the international space station

:namaste:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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Re: Maitreya - What do you think?

Post by jason c » Mon May 28, 2012 6:45 pm

hi david,
i was reading that the buddha said five 1000 yr. periods. but since he let women leave the householders life and live as nuns the 1000 yr period would be cut in half. leaving five 500 yr periods. 2500yrs
but i do strongly agree with cittasanto in that we shouldn't wait to be saved by anyone.
metta,
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Re: Maitreya - What do you think?

Post by Cittasanto » Mon May 28, 2012 7:31 pm

jason c wrote:hi david,
i was reading that the buddha said five 1000 yr. periods. but since he let women leave the householders life and live as nuns the 1000 yr period would be cut in half. leaving five 500 yr periods. 2500yrs
but i do strongly agree with cittasanto in that we shouldn't wait to be saved by anyone.
metta,
jason
I am not quite saying that, I don't subscribe to the idea that the next Buddha is viewed or should be viewed as some kind of saviour, although know this is one belief although I believe it is not found within Buddhism, rather some external claimants and ideas that have seeped in; although do recognise some may see it like that.

I agree with Polarbuddha101 when they say
The whole Metteya/dhamma is dead or dying thing seems about as useful to people following the Buddha's dhamma as horse manure is to people on the international space station
and see the idea as "well the True Dhamma is dying, or dead, so it will be easier when the next Buddha comes along as I will be able to have the path pointed out to me propperly." we all want the best teachers after all!

The time frame is arguably a later addition, but as it is there it can not be casually ignored based on some preference (in my opinion) as it is important to consider the way forward and not just blindly plow ahead ignoring things which may cause problems for others and ourselves (which this sort of thing does show existed and exists) due to some preferences.

I would argue that the women have more rules because they didn't have as close contact with the Buddha as the monks did (it is a over riding observation that the nuns had little contact in all the existing canons) and because they were a separate group (independent) from the men to a large extent, there was not (pardon the expression) as much cross fertilisation of appropriate behaviour as would happen in the mens side where things could be passed by those who had close contact with the Buddha and unspoken conventions of acceptabile behaviour were established before an insident occured via conversing about a situation occuring or a potential situation; although that doesn't discount Davids view.

but I am off-topic even if it was/is/maybe interesting.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
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Re: Maitreya - What do you think?

Post by mikenz66 » Mon May 28, 2012 7:51 pm

Hi Graeme,
GraemeR wrote: To me it seems to be something else to obscure Buddha's teaching.
Well, of course, there are plenty of mythological things in the Suttas. Whether they obscure or not depends on how one reads them.

As Bhikkhu Bodhi puts in, in "In the Buddha's Words", introduction to Chapter 1:
Moreover, the process is not only beginningless but is also potentially endless. As long as ignorance and craving remain intact, the process will continue indefinitely into the future with no end in sight. For the Buddha and Early Buddhism, this is above all the defining crisis at the heart of the human condition: we are bound to a chain of rebirths, and bound to it by nothing other than our own ignorance and craving. The pointless wandering on in saṃsāra occurs against a cosmic background of inconceivably vast dimensions. The period of time that it takes for a world system to evolve, reach its phase of maximum expansion, contract, and then disintegrate is called a kappa (Skt: kalpa), an eon. Text I,4(3) offers a vivid simile to suggest the eon’s duration; Text I,4(4), another vivid simile to illustrate the incalculable number of the eons through which we have wandered.

[See: http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... ggo-e.html
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .html#sn15]

As beings wander and roam from life to life, shrouded in darkness, they fall again and again into the chasm of birth, aging, sickness, and death. But because their craving propels them forward in a relentless quest for gratification, they seldom pause long enough to step back and attend carefully to their existential plight. As Text I,4(5) [http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html]states, they instead just keep revolving around the “five aggregates” in the way a dog on a leash might run around a post or pillar. Since their ignorance prevents them from recognizing the vicious nature of their condition, they cannot discern even the tracks of a path to deliverance. Most beings live immersed in the enjoyment of sensual pleasures. Others, driven by the need for power, status, and esteem, pass their lives in vain attempts to fill an unquenchable thirst. Many, fearful of annihilation at death, construct belief systems that ascribe to their individual selves, their souls, the prospect of eternal life. A few yearn for a path to liberation but do not know where to find one. It was precisely to offer such a path that the Buddha has appeared in our midst.
In that context, reflection on past and future teachers of liberating Dhamma can be helpful.

Bhikkhu Bodhi continues in his introduction to Chapter 2.
According to Buddhist tradition, the Buddha Gotama is not merely one unique individual who puts in an unprecedented appearance on the stage of human history and then bows out forever. He is, rather, the fulfillment of a primordial archetype, the most recent member of a cosmic “dynasty” of Buddhas constituted by numberless Perfectly Enlightened Ones of the past and sustained by Perfectly Enlightened Ones continuing indefinitely onward into the future. Early Buddhism, even in the archaic root texts of the Nikāyas, already recognizes a plurality of Buddhas who all conform to certain fixed patterns of behavior, the broad outlines of which are described in the opening sections of the Mahāpadāna Sutta (Dīgha Nikāya 14, not represented in the present anthology). The word “Tathāgata,” which the texts use as an epithet for a Buddha, points to this fulfillment of a primordial archetype. The word means both “the one who has come thus” (tath̄ ̄gata), that is, who has come into our midst in the same way that the Buddhas of the past have come; and “the one who has gone thus” (tath̄ gata), that is, who has gone to the ultimate peace, Nibbāna, in the same way that the Buddhas of the past have gone.
This may not be inspiring for everyone, but for some it obviously is.

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: Maitreya - What do you think?

Post by Maitri » Mon May 28, 2012 10:29 pm

plwk wrote:


Could someone provide the source in the Nikayas? I see a few people saying once and a few saying twice. Just curious.
1 2 3 4

Many thanks for the references. :heart:


On the topic of people claiming to be Maitreya, I also recall that the founder of the Baha'i faith, Baha'u'llah, is considered by his followers to be the next Buddha. I had a lengthy talk with a few Baha'i's and they seemed to group Maitreya as being just another prophet as one would find in the Abrahamic faiths. Needless to say, I didn't find their arguments very convincing; mostly to do with the meaning of names and fudging translations of the source material. But, nice people nonetheless.

It seems that there is a lot of competition for being the true Maitreya on the internet these days. :rolleye:
"Upon a heap of rubbish in the road-side ditch blooms a lotus, fragrant and pleasing.
Even so, on the rubbish heap of blinded mortals the disciple of the Supremely Enlightened One shines resplendent in wisdom." Dhammapada: Pupphavagga

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Re: Maitreya - What do you think?

Post by Wesley1982 » Mon May 28, 2012 11:23 pm

I don't know. That's why I became 'Agnostic' for a year. (2012)

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