Buddhism and Hinduism?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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chris98e
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Buddhism and Hinduism?

Post by chris98e » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:26 pm

Did the Buddha and/or does the Buddha recognize the God Brahma as the God who created existence like Hindus do?
I really don't care if this post gets answered since Brahma can't make me into a perfectly enlightened being. :candle:

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Ben
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism?

Post by Ben » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:33 pm

I may as well repeat it again...
From here: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 96#p165089" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ben wrote:
chris98e wrote:
Ben wrote:There is no supreme being in Buddhism.
The Buddha has recognized Brahma before in the suttas.
In this sutta, the Buddha faces two antagonists: Baka, a brahma who believes that his brahma-attainment is the highest attainment there is; and Mara, who wants (1) to keep Baka under his power by allowing Baka to maintain his deluded opinion, and (2) to prevent the Buddha from sharing his awakened knowledge with others. Of the two, Mara is the more insidious, a point illustrated by the fact that Mara always speaks through someone else and never directly shows his face. (Another interesting point is illustrated by the fact that Mara is the source of the demand that one obey a creator god.)
The Blessed One said: "On one occasion recently I was staying in Ukkattha in the Subhaga forest at the root of a royal sala tree. Now on that occasion an evil viewpoint had arisen to Baka-Brahma: 'This is constant. This is permanent. This is eternal. This is total. This is not subject to falling away — for this does not take birth, does not age, does not die, does not fall away, does not reappear.[1] And there is no other, higher escape.'..

..."When this was said, I told Baka Brahma, 'How immersed in ignorance is Baka Brahma! How immersed in ignorance is Baka Brahma!...

-- MN49: Brahma-nimantanika Sutta
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Ben
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism?

Post by Ben » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:35 pm

The pedal hits the metal when the Buddha warned against belief in the salvific power of an almighty creator god.
From here: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 96#p165096" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ben wrote:Furthermore:
The Buddha declared: “Monks, of these three views, there are some samanas and Brahmins who hold and set forth the following view: “All bodily and mentally agreeable sensations, all bodily and mentally disagreeable sensations and all indifferent sensations enjoyed by beings in the present existence are created by a supreme brahma or god”.

‘I approach them and ask: “Friends, is it true that you hold and set forth this view: ‘That all bodily and mentally agreeable sensations, all bodily and mentally disagreeable sensations, all indifferent sensations enjoyed by beings in the present life are created by a supreme brahma or god?”
‘To this those samanas and Brahmins reply, “Yes, Venerable sir”.
“Then I say to them: “Friends, if that be the case, there will be persons who, owing to the creation of a supreme brahma or god:

1. Will kill any living being
2. Will steal
3. Will tell lies
4. Will indulge in immoral sexual intercourse
5. Will slander
6. Will use harsh language
7. Will foolishly babble
8. Will be avaricious
9. Will maintain ill-will against others
10. Will maintain wrong views.

‘Monks, indeed, in the minds of those who confidentily and solely rely on the creation of a supreme brahma or god, there cannot arise such mental factors as desire-to-do and effort, as to differentiate between what actions should be done and what actions should be refrained from.

‘Monks, this is the second factual statement to refute the heretical beliefs and views advanced by those samanas and Brahmins who maintain that all sensations enjoyed by beings in the present life are created by a supreme brahma or god’

AN Tika-Nipata, translated by Ledi Sayadaw in Sammaditthi Dipani
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

chris98e
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism?

Post by chris98e » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:30 pm

Ben wrote:In this sutta, the Buddha faces two antagonists: Baka, a brahma who believes that his brahma-attainment is the highest attainment there is; and Mara
I think were talking about two different Gods. The Brahma I'm talking about is the Brahma of the Trimurti of Hinduism. And when I looked him or her up on the internet (Wikapedia) The website did not put the prefix Baka infront of Brahma. So, we might be talking about two different Brahmas.

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reflection
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism?

Post by reflection » Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:42 am

chris98e wrote:Did the Buddha and/or does the Buddha recognize the God Brahma as the God who created existence like Hindus do?
No. Buddhism has no story of creation.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism?

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:35 am

chris98e wrote:Did the Buddha and/or does the Buddha recognize the God Brahma as the God who created existence like Hindus do?
I really don't care if this post gets answered since Brahma can't make me into a perfectly enlightened being. :candle:
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... hma#p85804" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Kim OHara
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism?

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:39 am

chris98e wrote:
Ben wrote:In this sutta, the Buddha faces two antagonists: Baka, a brahma who believes that his brahma-attainment is the highest attainment there is; and Mara
I think were talking about two different Gods. The Brahma I'm talking about is the Brahma of the Trimurti of Hinduism. And when I looked him or her up on the internet (Wikapedia) The website did not put the prefix Baka infront of Brahma. So, we might be talking about two different Brahmas.
This http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... /loka.html may help clear up the confusion.

:namaste:
Kim

chris98e
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism?

Post by chris98e » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:36 pm

What confuses me the most is the Sutta MN 93 Assalāyana Sutta - To Assalāyana. Known to me as Purification is for all castes. For example said by the Buddha: “Then on the strength of what [argument] or with the support of what [authority] do the Brahmins in this case say thus: ‘Brahmins are the highest caste...heirs of Brahmā’?” In my view The Buddha is talking about Brahma the God of Hinduism and recognizing the God of Hinduism known in Hinduism as Brahma the creator. And not a God who delights in creation, or wields power over others' creations etc...
Was the Buddha pretending to the Brahmins to believe that their God Brahma exists just to convey to them that purification is for all castes? :stirthepot:

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Fede
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism?

Post by Fede » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:22 pm

no, he was asking "what the heck do you think makes you so special? because you know - you ain't....."
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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chris98e
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism?

Post by chris98e » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:56 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:This [url http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... /loka.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/url] may help clear up the confusion.

:namaste:
Kim
Thanks.
I think the link you gave me is as good as it is going to get with my curiousity on whether the Buddha believes in Brahma the Creator of Hinduism. The Buddha seems to believe that he exists just doesn't see him as omnipotent. :candle:

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Fede
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism?

Post by Fede » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:59 pm

the Buddha didn't see any god as omnipotent, and when asked, remained silent.
silent as in "it's really not important", not as in "I haven't got a clue".
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Paññāsikhara
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Re: Buddhism and Hinduism?

Post by Paññāsikhara » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:46 am

chris98e wrote:Did the Buddha and/or does the Buddha recognize the God Brahma as the God who created existence like Hindus do?
I really don't care if this post gets answered since Brahma can't make me into a perfectly enlightened being. :candle:
No.

~~ Huifeng
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.

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