Vipassana vs Theravada

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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tiltbillings
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Re: Vipassana vs Theravada

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:56 am

dhamma_newb wrote:Thanks tilt! I really appreciate the great links and resources you provide in the forums. :anjali:
Thank you.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

Buckwheat
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Re: Vipassana vs Theravada

Post by Buckwheat » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:21 pm

pilgrim wrote:
Goofaholix wrote:... perhaps their bodhisattva vows result in an emphasis on the development of paramis rather than insight which leads to liberation. Just my speculation.
One of the six Mahayana paramitas is wisdom, which requires insight. The six are dana (generosity), sila (ethics), kshanti (patience), virya (effort), dhyana (concentration), prajna (wisdom). I'm not very familiar with Tibetan, but the Rinpoches seem pretty wise.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

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Goofaholix
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Re: Vipassana vs Theravada

Post by Goofaholix » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:59 pm

tiltbillings wrote:The reality is, however, that the level of concentration cultivated by Mahasi Sayadaw type vipassana practice looks, according some people, a lot like jhana described in the suttas.
I've listened to dhamma talks by about half a dozen Burmese Sayadaws of the Mahasi tradition and they all went something like this "Vipassana meditation is like this, Samatha meditation like that, we are practising Vipassana meditation not Samatha meditation".

Maybe the talks were very introductory and/or had to be dumbed down because of having to work through an interpreter, but it did seem like the same dhamma talk each time.

Maybe this is what is informing people's view.

In my opinion Mahasi technique is really a Samatha technique on changing objects. Ultimately whether that leads to insight (vipassana) is dependant on the attitude with which it is practised.
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

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mikenz66
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Re: Vipassana vs Theravada

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:13 pm

There are some interesting comments from Chanmyay Sayadaw here:
http://buddhanet.net/vmed_1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The whole page is worth reading, but this is perhaps the most relevant part:
So Vipassana meditation is of two types: The first, Vipassana meditation, insight meditation is preceded by Samatha meditation. The second is the pure Vipassana meditation or insight meditation not preceded by Samatha meditation. The first type of Vipassana meditation or Insight Meditation is practised by those who have ample time to devote to their meditation. They have to spend maybe three or four months on Samatha meditation. And when they are satisfied with their attainment of jhana concentration they proceed with Vipassana meditation.

Pure Vipassana meditation is practised by those who haven't enough time to devote to their meditation like yourselves, because you do not have three or four months or six months or a year for your meditation. So you can spend about ten days on your meditation. For such meditators pure Vipassana meditation is suitable. That's why we have to conduct a ten days Vipassana meditation retreat. Actually ten days meditation is not enough. The period is too short a time for a meditator to succeed in any noticeable experience in his meditation. But there are some who have some experience in Vipassana meditation who when their meditation experience becomes major can attain the higher stages of insight knowledge of the body-mind processes of their true nature. Although you can spend just ten days on your meditation, if you strive to attain the deep concentration with a strenuous effort without much interval or break in the course of your meditation for the whole day, then you are able to have some new experience of meditation. So the point is to practise intensively and strenuously as much as you can.
:anjali:
Mike

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tiltbillings
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Re: Vipassana vs Theravada

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:14 pm

Goofaholix wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:The reality is, however, that the level of concentration cultivated by Mahasi Sayadaw type vipassana practice looks, according some people, a lot like jhana described in the suttas.
I've listened to dhamma talks by about half a dozen Burmese Sayadaws of the Mahasi tradition and they all went something like this "Vipassana meditation is like this, Samatha meditation like that, we are practising Vipassana meditation not Samatha meditation".
As I said, you have to understand the context, which is when they talk about jhana type concentration they are talking about it in terms of the Visuddhimagga, and as I said, take a look at this msg: http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 6&p=140097" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Maybe this is what is informing people's view.
Most likely.
In my opinion Mahasi technique is really a Samatha technique on changing objects. Ultimately whether that leads to insight (vipassana) is dependant on the attitude with which it is practised.
The Mahasi Sayadaw method is, in fact, both.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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