"The Deathless" (amata)

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suttametta
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Re: "The Deathless" (amata)

Post by suttametta » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:43 pm

Tilt, Your conclusion that amata has a limited meaning of not going to be reborn is simply illogical, because that would be reference to a future event, and Nibbana is clearly a present event for the one who has understood it. Nibbana is an understanding. It's an understanding that comes from seeing the 12 links in action. Yes one will be freed from birth, but also one is freed in what is not born, not made, etc., because it is seeing of the true state of affairs. Yes, also greed, etc., are terminated, as is death as such, etc., but one is present discerning this true state of affairs because it is the causal basis for continuing the result, which is a new improved consciousness having this acute perception or understanding as it main identifying factor. For one governed by avijja there is vinnana. For one governed by vijja there is pañña. Pañña is Nibbana, is Damma, etc., such that vipassana is seeing, insight, wisdom. None of this is limited to a destroyed poetential for rebirth. Your reading by way of cross reference to other instances of Amata to limit it meaning to support your position that Nibbana is only a lack of desire, birth, etc., leaves out all the text where Nibbana is clearly being described as an experience. It is something someone is having. Buddha was not trying to tell mind twisters. He was saying what was easy to understand using common sense phrases. So "freedom from" for the prefix a simply does not fly at all. It works just like ours works, un, unborn, etc. There is that which is unborn, a viññanam which arises from pañña, because seeing the conditions at play is sight, vijja, like seeing all the links in a process or seeing how there is a new understanding which has this effect of terminating desire, seeing a purified consciousness, a discernment, panajati. btw none of this implies atman. Those guys are positing a fundamental element. It's a big conjecture they make to try and get their big social system to fit together with Brahmins in charge. The Buddha is saying it's not being something that makes you special, but learning something.

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tiltbillings
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Re: "The Deathless" (amata)

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:20 pm

suttametta wrote:Tilt, . . . something.
Well, thank you for sharing your thoughts.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

suttametta
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Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 2:55 pm

Re: "The Deathless" (amata)

Post by suttametta » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:55 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
suttametta wrote:Tilt, . . . something.
Well, thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I have no use for such pleasantries.

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tiltbillings
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Re: "The Deathless" (amata)

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:07 pm

suttametta wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
suttametta wrote:Tilt, . . . something.
Well, thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I have no use for such pleasantries.
Well, thank you very much for letting me know that.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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