Questions about stream entry

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Questions about stream entry

Post by Mahabrahma »

That makes great sense. Thank you for your wise words. :candle:
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Questions about stream entry

Post by Mahabrahma »

I'm wondering, would Nirvana and Buddhahood be Transcendental to the dualistic notions of permanence and impermanence? How?
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white wolf
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Re: Questions about stream entry

Post by white wolf »

Mahabrahma wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:19 pm
The material world is evil. But Love is Spiritual and Buddhist, not material. Sacred marriage with a Loving partner is all Love and all good. Feeling Love, cultivating Love, and giving Mahakaruna and Love is the goal of life. Nirvana is a Stream of Love, and there is Transcendental enjoyment, not material enjoyment there. In Nirvana there is great happiness, you become full happiness and fully satisfied in who you are.

In this life you can attain Nirvana and still enjoy milkshakes, healthy time with your partner, a nice movie, as long as all you are going for is Love. I am not talking about clinging or lust or unhealthy attachment, but a quality of life where you have developed your Transcendental senses in accordance with the Buddha's doctrine. There's that saying "do what makes you happy." Well, only following and accepting Buddha's philosophy can make you happy, and to be a Buddha and ultimate happiness is what you want. :smile:
I found an old topic about stream entry...

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=27199
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2016 4:08 pm Things have changed since the time of the Buddha. Perhaps at that time, lay people who were observing only the five precepts could go to the monastery at the end of their working day, listen to a discourse by the Buddha, and attain Stream-entry by the end of it, without any serious meditation practice.

Nowadays, to attain such deep insights as might lead to Stream-entry by one with good perfections, lay people will need to renounce all sexual activity during a prolonged period of meditation retreat. An exceptionally gifted individual might attain Stream-entry within a month or two. As far as I know, which is at best an intelligent guess based on listening to many meditators reporting on their experiences to the teacher, and at worst mere idle speculation, most would need to practice continuously for six months or more.

One example that I can cite, is that of a meditator who gained the knowledge of equanimity about formations (which is not too remote from nibbāna), within a fortnight of intensive practice. He was a Rhodes scholar, so someone of exceptional intelligence and drive.

It is impossible to gain deep insight into the mental and physical phenomena while still thinking frequently about sex. For example, if a lay person attending a one day full-moon day celebration at their local temple were sitting there while contemplating having sex when they got home in the evening, they are observing the Cow-herd's Uposatha, and are still very remote from attaining even the lower stages of insight.

So, while the above replies are true in the general sense, they do not show the true path of insight which is the way to the realisation of Stream-entry. As the Buddha put it; one cannot light a fire by rubbing wet sappy sticks. One needs a pair of bone-dry sticks, and one needs to rub them together vigorously even to produce heat, let alone smoke and fire.

:candle:
Inedible
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Re: Questions about stream entry

Post by Inedible »

There are a lot of tv shows out there with people starting fire by rubbing sticks together. They tend to have a collection of dry material to take a spark and start burning. When the fire gets bigger it can burn dry sticks. When it gets big enough you can even add sappy wet wood. The important thing is that given the right conditions it looks like starting fire this way is quick and easy.

If you can't find the right dry sticks and material for a tinder bundle and your wood is sappy and wet, don't plan to rub sticks together. Especially if it is your first time. The best thing to do is find a really big fire already started by someone else. Then even if you don't really want to burn it can still happen. Or you can just spend time with a bunch of other wet sticks getting moldy and talking about the legend of fire. That would be safer.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Questions about stream entry

Post by Mahabrahma »

white wolf wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:52 pm I found an old topic about stream entry...


:candle:
Yes this is a nice post. I do not believe that a Buddha has to give up being married though if that is part of their Path, but the tradition of monkhood is certainly the powerful path to Buddhahood. It is possible for a Layperson to attain Buddhahood as well too, though. I don't like thinking or talking too much about sex personally, I am a celibate householder, but I want to say that if you are fully in Love with someone one hundred percent, and they feel the same way back, and you are in a committed relationship such as a marriage or a lifetime partnership or are building up to one, Spiritual sex is not a problem or hindrance if done in full respect and without craving. Renunciation in the form of Bhikku robes is however is a powerful way as well. The main focus is to give up craving, and celibacy is a very powerful way to do this. But one who gives up the sense objects while still dwelling on them is certainly a pretender.
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Re: Questions about stream entry

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Mahabrahma wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:11 pm
white wolf wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:52 pm I found an old topic about stream entry...


:candle:
Yes this is a nice post. I do not believe that a Buddha has to give up being married though if that is part of their Path, but the tradition of monkhood is certainly the powerful path to Buddhahood. It is possible for a Layperson to attain Buddhahood as well too, though. I don't like thinking or talking too much about sex personally, I am a celibate householder, but I want to say that if you are fully in Love with someone one hundred percent, and they feel the same way back, and you are in a committed relationship such as a marriage or a lifetime partnership or are building up to one, Spiritual sex is not a problem or hindrance if done in full respect and without craving. Renunciation in the form of Bhikku robes is however is a powerful way as well. The main focus is to give up craving, and celibacy is a very powerful way to do this. But one who gives up the sense objects while still dwelling on them is certainly a pretender.
I am also celibate (brahmachari like) but i masturbrate
dont think
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Questions about stream entry

Post by Mahabrahma »

confusedlayman wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:15 pm
Mahabrahma wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:11 pm
white wolf wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:52 pm I found an old topic about stream entry...


:candle:
Yes this is a nice post. I do not believe that a Buddha has to give up being married though if that is part of their Path, but the tradition of monkhood is certainly the powerful path to Buddhahood. It is possible for a Layperson to attain Buddhahood as well too, though. I don't like thinking or talking too much about sex personally, I am a celibate householder, but I want to say that if you are fully in Love with someone one hundred percent, and they feel the same way back, and you are in a committed relationship such as a marriage or a lifetime partnership or are building up to one, Spiritual sex is not a problem or hindrance if done in full respect and without craving. Renunciation in the form of Bhikku robes is however is a powerful way as well. The main focus is to give up craving, and celibacy is a very powerful way to do this. But one who gives up the sense objects while still dwelling on them is certainly a pretender.
I am also celibate (brahmachari like) but i masturbrate
That is not your fault. But if you cultivate a path to more Transcendental connections to women of your type, such as friendship, if you do not want to be in a romantic relationship, that type of friendship can bring you to a higher state of solidarity where you can overcome the fetters that makes you do that. There can still be great Love outside of sexual relationships, different forms of Spiritual Buddhist Love are what progress our Buddhism. Being Spiritual friends with people of the same gender can also bring you to a Higher place. Buddhist practice itself, as much of it as possible in mixture with Buddhist association can free you from material craving as well.

You aren't doing anything wrong, it's just that it may keep you out of a constant state of meditation, which is better to get to.
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white wolf
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Re: Questions about stream entry

Post by white wolf »

Dhammanando wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:31 am
Mahabrahma wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:34 pmThe Transcendental senses Teaching comes from an older Teaching than Buddhism by someone named Lord Kapila who is believed to also be a past Avatar of Lord Buddha in the Vedas,
Kapila, the founder of the Hindu Sāṃkhya school, is not regarded by ANY Buddhists – even Mahayanists – as a "past avatar" of the Buddha. Nor do the Vedas identify him as an avatar of the Buddha, for the simple reason that the Vedas know nothing about the Buddha. The very notion of an "avatar", though arguably comparable to the Mahayana's "nirmāṇakāya" conception, is completely foreign to Theravāda Buddhism.

But all of this is really beside the point, for this is not the Connections to Other Paths forum, and so discussion of Kapila's views is completely out of place here.

:focus:
:goodpost:

This is a Theravada forum.
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white wolf
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Re: Questions about stream entry

Post by white wolf »

Mahabrahma wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:11 pm
white wolf wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:52 pm I found an old topic about stream entry...


:candle:
Yes this is a nice post. I do not believe that a Buddha has to give up being married though if that is part of their Path, but the tradition of monkhood is certainly the powerful path to Buddhahood. It is possible for a Layperson to attain Buddhahood as well too, though. I don't like thinking or talking too much about sex personally, I am a celibate householder, but I want to say that if you are fully in Love with someone one hundred percent, and they feel the same way back, and you are in a committed relationship such as a marriage or a lifetime partnership or are building up to one, Spiritual sex is not a problem or hindrance if done in full respect and without craving. Renunciation in the form of Bhikku robes is however is a powerful way as well. The main focus is to give up craving, and celibacy is a very powerful way to do this. But one who gives up the sense objects while still dwelling on them is certainly a pretender.
I think Bhikkhu Pesala was talking about layperson is going to a retreat. I think Bhikkhu Pesala was not talking about becoming a monk...

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2016 4:08 pm
Nowadays, to attain such deep insights as might lead to Stream-entry by one with good perfections, lay people will need to renounce all sexual activity during a prolonged period of meditation retreat.
I have no interest in your hindu or whatever views. This is a Theravada forum...
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Questions about stream entry

Post by Mahabrahma »

I understand the need for celibacy. Attending a Buddhist retreat as a Layperson and staying celibate is a good choice, however if one is able not to remain celibate without clinging or material attachments, being full of compassion and Mahakaruna, then it is just as good. Healthy sex isn't evil nor does it keep someone out of Nirvana if it is in accordance to the principles of Love. Buddhism is about saving everyone from Samsara. The phenomena of sex itself isn't some anomaly in this world that's gone wrong. There's something more to it...

My keen advice is to stay celibate though, it will help you concentrate, like the Bhikku said. That is all.
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Re: Questions about stream entry

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white wolf wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:55 pm Hello dear forum members. I have questions about stream entry.

1. Is the first jhana enough to attain stream entry?

2. How long does it takes to attain stream entry? Is one lifetime enough or not?

3. Is it necessary to develop perfect morality?

Thank you for the answers.
You require passing through all jhanas including arupa jhanas in order for fruit of stream entry.
You must eradicate kamma leading to rebirth in lower realms. This can be done in this lifetime with proper practice.
It is necessary to keep morality pure in order to maintain right concentration.
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Re: Questions about stream entry

Post by cappuccino »

:candle:
Last edited by cappuccino on Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Questions about stream entry

Post by Mahabrahma »

But everyone is capable of compassion.
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Re: Questions about stream entry

Post by cappuccino »

:candle:
Last edited by cappuccino on Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Questions about stream entry

Post by Mahabrahma »

The Buddha used to fly to other planets and bring back fruit for His Disciples, just like Superman. Buddha's only mission is to Enlighten others and save the world too.
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