Entering jhana 1.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
ToVincent
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Re: Entering jhana 1.

Post by ToVincent »

JC938 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:44 am
Hello,

To enter jhana 1 or even 2,3..

How do you meditate? Do you do the sati pathan 4 (watching body, feeling, mind, emotion) or do you just watch the in and out of breath or do you just watch the mind and the thoughts (vipassana). How do you enter jhana 1 and feel happy?

Thank you.
Follow the procedure.
https://rentry.co/m3inp
Using a proper historical lexicography, and your knowledge of the Indian philosophy of the time (particularly Vedic — as in, being able to understand the concept of space, for instance).

Here is what "seclusion" means:
https://justpaste.it/1lvy7

So know your own breath — recover your own breath.
Know the internal of the world of senses, and get a touch of the rupa loka, I guess.

Don't breathe long & short, but breathe high & low.
In the case of the verbs assasanto & passasanto, the Sanskrit considers dīgha (दीर्घ dīrgha) and rassa (ह्रस्व hrasva [hras-va]), as adverbs - whose translation is far (lofty) & close (low) - and not long & short (as it would be, in the case of an adjective).

Don't try to go further the first jhana, until you have mastered it, I suppose.

My humble take.
.
.
Some working for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; some for the Unborn.
.
Those who desire good are few, and those who desire evil are many.
Buddha
(And you just can't imagine how much goodness, those who desire evil, are ready to display - ToVincent).

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confusedlayman
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Re: Entering jhana 1.

Post by confusedlayman »

auto wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:07 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:48 am
since we sleep everyday and body with 5 sence naturally goes blank during sleep, u dont have to do much work because 5 hinderance off, 5 sence off, body immobolized will be automatically taken care.. all u need to do is to be aware in ur sleep and when sleep paralysis state comes just radiate metta thats all u need to do...
You need know the hindrance in order to remove it, how else you know it is hindrance or why it is named the way it is named..
confusedlayman wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:48 am
Hi.. 1st jhana needs 5 sence off, body immobolized, piti and sukka of jhanic level....5 hinderance off....
how do you know there have to be 5 hindrances off or only 1st hindrance to get into 1st jhana?
"5 senses off"
how do you know about hindrance if your senses are off?

if you read about 1st hindrance which is sensual pleasure, then you notice that it is about five senses. Five senses act as a decoy for hindrance to come out - Beautiful form can arose desire, which is sensory intent(kāmacchanda)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_hindrances wrote:Sensory desire (kāmacchanda): the particular type of wanting that seeks for happiness through the five senses of sight, sound, smell, taste and physical feeling.
the sensory intent what arises is what keeps you going and feeling of alive and interested in doing the things you do. Which actually is wrong intent. The correct intent is born from understanding the wrong intent which then makes the wrong intent right intent which then is not anymore sensory intent albeit for the outsider looks like it is sensory and ordinary.
When u are sleeping.. u wont have 5 hinderance ... if u aware then there is aware that body is sleeping and paralysed (protective mechanism)
conceit is responsible for irritation

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confusedlayman
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Re: Entering jhana 1.

Post by confusedlayman »

ToVincent wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:46 pm
JC938 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:44 am
Hello,

To enter jhana 1 or even 2,3..

How do you meditate? Do you do the sati pathan 4 (watching body, feeling, mind, emotion) or do you just watch the in and out of breath or do you just watch the mind and the thoughts (vipassana). How do you enter jhana 1 and feel happy?

Thank you.
Follow the procedure.
https://rentry.co/m3inp
Using a proper historical lexicography, and your knowledge of the Indian philosophy of the time (particularly Vedic — as in, being able to understand the concept of space, for instance).

Here is what "seclusion" means:
https://justpaste.it/1lvy7

So know your own breath — recover your own breath.
Know the internal of the world of senses, and get a touch of the rupa loka, I guess.

Don't breathe long & short, but breathe high & low.
In the case of the verbs assasanto & passasanto, the Sanskrit considers dīgha (दीर्घ dīrgha) and rassa (ह्रस्व hrasva [hras-va]), as adverbs - whose translation is far (lofty) & close (low) - and not long & short (as it would be, in the case of an adjective).

Don't try to go further the first jhana, until you have mastered it, I suppose.

My humble take.
.
.
Nice resource :anjali:
conceit is responsible for irritation

auto
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Re: Entering jhana 1.

Post by auto »

confusedlayman wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:19 pm
When u are sleeping.. u wont have 5 hinderance ... if u aware then there is aware that body is sleeping and paralysed (protective mechanism)
hindrance is mental.

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confusedlayman
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Re: Entering jhana 1.

Post by confusedlayman »

auto wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:38 pm
confusedlayman wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:19 pm
When u are sleeping.. u wont have 5 hinderance ... if u aware then there is aware that body is sleeping and paralysed (protective mechanism)
hindrance is mental.
When u r actively thinking like xx etc u r not in hyonagogic state.. u are fully awake or dreaming
conceit is responsible for irritation

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Entering jhana 1.

Post by Ceisiwr »

JC938 wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:44 am
Hello,

To enter jhana 1 or even 2,3..

How do you meditate? Do you do the sati pathan 4 (watching body, feeling, mind, emotion) or do you just watch the in and out of breath or do you just watch the mind and the thoughts (vipassana). How do you enter jhana 1 and feel happy?

Thank you.
I thoroughly recommend the Visuddhimagga. It explains in detail which meditation practices lead to Jhana and those that don’t: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... on2011.pdf
Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found;
The deeds are, but no doer of the deeds is there;
Nibbāna is, but not the man that enters it;
The path is, but no traveler on it is seen.


Visuddhimagga

ToVincent
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Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:02 pm

Re: Entering jhana 1.

Post by ToVincent »

I must say that the Visuddhimagaga has been a great help to me.

I had struggled for years on how to understand how to reach the arupa-niddesa (particularly space) - then evrything became clearer.
Almost a millenium after Buddha died, another "utterance of Bhuddha" (buddha-ghosa) came to shed some light on this obscure "space" thing, I would not have understood without him (buddhaghosa):
Then, when he has spread out the kasina to the limit of the world-sphere, or as far as he likes, he removes the kasina [materiality] by giving his attention to the space touched by it, [regarding that] as “space” or “boundless space.”

When he is removing it, he neither folds it up like a mat nor withdraws it like a cake from a tin. It is simply that he does not advert to it or give attention to it or review it; it is when he neither adverts to it nor gives attention to it nor reviews it, but gives his attention exclusively to the space touched by it, [regarding that] as “space, space,” that he is said to “remove the kasina.”

And when the kasina is being removed, it does not roll up or roll away. It is simply that it is called “removed” on account of his non-attention to it, his attention being given to “space, space".
"space, space" - I would have never thought of that.
.
.
Some working for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; some for the Unborn.
.
Those who desire good are few, and those who desire evil are many.
Buddha
(And you just can't imagine how much goodness, those who desire evil, are ready to display - ToVincent).

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DooDoot
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Re: Entering jhana 1.

Post by DooDoot »

form wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:15 pm
I think there are thoughts and examination in the first jhana as pointed out from the sutta.
no... there is no ordinary thought in jhana

in jhana, vitakka means the mind moving towards the vedana factors of jhana

vicara means the mind scanning the vedana factors of jhana
confusedlayman wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:20 pm
When u r actively thinking like xx etc u r not in hyonagogic state.. u are fully awake or dreaming
jhana is not hyonagogic
hypnagogic
/ˌhɪpnəˈɡɒdʒɪk/
adjectivePSYCHOLOGY
relating to the state immediately before falling asleep.
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Entering jhana 1.

Post by Ceisiwr »

ToVincent wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:39 pm
I must say that the Visuddhimagaga has been a great help to me.

I had struggled for years on how to understand how to reach the arupa-niddesa (particularly space) - then evrything became clearer.
Almost a millenium after Buddha died, another "utterance of Bhuddha" (buddha-ghosa) came to shed some light on this obscure "space" thing, I would not have understood without him (buddhaghosa):
Then, when he has spread out the kasina to the limit of the world-sphere, or as far as he likes, he removes the kasina [materiality] by giving his attention to the space touched by it, [regarding that] as “space” or “boundless space.”

When he is removing it, he neither folds it up like a mat nor withdraws it like a cake from a tin. It is simply that he does not advert to it or give attention to it or review it; it is when he neither adverts to it nor gives attention to it nor reviews it, but gives his attention exclusively to the space touched by it, [regarding that] as “space, space,” that he is said to “remove the kasina.”

And when the kasina is being removed, it does not roll up or roll away. It is simply that it is called “removed” on account of his non-attention to it, his attention being given to “space, space".
"space, space" - I would have never thought of that.
.
.
Thank god we have the insight of ToVincent and his dodgy indology over the wisdom of the ancient Theras. Aren't we just lucky ;)
Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found;
The deeds are, but no doer of the deeds is there;
Nibbāna is, but not the man that enters it;
The path is, but no traveler on it is seen.


Visuddhimagga

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confusedlayman
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Re: Entering jhana 1.

Post by confusedlayman »

Ceisiwr wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:13 pm
ToVincent wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:39 pm
I must say that the Visuddhimagaga has been a great help to me.

I had struggled for years on how to understand how to reach the arupa-niddesa (particularly space) - then evrything became clearer.
Almost a millenium after Buddha died, another "utterance of Bhuddha" (buddha-ghosa) came to shed some light on this obscure "space" thing, I would not have understood without him (buddhaghosa):
Then, when he has spread out the kasina to the limit of the world-sphere, or as far as he likes, he removes the kasina [materiality] by giving his attention to the space touched by it, [regarding that] as “space” or “boundless space.”

When he is removing it, he neither folds it up like a mat nor withdraws it like a cake from a tin. It is simply that he does not advert to it or give attention to it or review it; it is when he neither adverts to it nor gives attention to it nor reviews it, but gives his attention exclusively to the space touched by it, [regarding that] as “space, space,” that he is said to “remove the kasina.”

And when the kasina is being removed, it does not roll up or roll away. It is simply that it is called “removed” on account of his non-attention to it, his attention being given to “space, space".
"space, space" - I would have never thought of that.
.
.
Thank god we have the insight of ToVincent and his dodgy indology over the wisdom of the ancient Theras. Aren't we just lucky ;)
Is @ToVincent praising or humourous towards buddhaghosa?
conceit is responsible for irritation

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Ceisiwr
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Re: Entering jhana 1.

Post by Ceisiwr »

confusedlayman
Is @ToVincent praising or humourous towards buddhaghosa?
He is being sarcastic.
Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found;
The deeds are, but no doer of the deeds is there;
Nibbāna is, but not the man that enters it;
The path is, but no traveler on it is seen.


Visuddhimagga

form
Posts: 1504
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 am

Re: Entering jhana 1.

Post by form »

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:06 pm
form wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:15 pm
I think there are thoughts and examination in the first jhana as pointed out from the sutta.
no... there is no ordinary thought in jhana

in jhana, vitakka means the mind moving towards the vedana factors of jhana

vicara means the mind scanning the vedana factors of jhana
confusedlayman wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:20 pm
When u r actively thinking like xx etc u r not in hyonagogic state.. u are fully awake or dreaming
jhana is not hyonagogic
hypnagogic
/ˌhɪpnəˈɡɒdʒɪk/
adjectivePSYCHOLOGY
relating to the state immediately before falling asleep.
One version of the first jhana description is with thoughts and examinations. I will give the references later.

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DooDoot
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Re: Entering jhana 1.

Post by DooDoot »

form wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:20 pm
I will give the references later.
Unnecessary. All you can provide is a translation. Regards :smile:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

form
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Re: Entering jhana 1.

Post by form »

DooDoot wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:38 pm
form wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:20 pm
I will give the references later.
Unnecessary. All you can provide is a translation. Regards :smile:
Yes. Maybe u can help me by pointing out the difference in your translation and that version.

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DooDoot
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Re: Entering jhana 1.

Post by DooDoot »

form wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:45 pm
Yes. Maybe u can help me by pointing out the difference in your translation and that version.
I can't. Many famous teachers have given their opinion about how the words vitakka & vicara have a different meaning in relation to jhana. Regards
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati

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