budo wrote: ↑
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:34 pm
No because you can't be one pointed and doing multiple things. One pointed means one object connected and maintained. The mind needs to be stilled, it cannot be stilled if one is moving around or doing activities.
“Well sir, whenever I want, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, I enter and remain in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected. And whenever I want, as the placing of the mind and keeping it connected are stilled … I enter and remain in the second absorption. And whenever I want, with the fading away of rapture … I enter and remain in the third absorption. And whenever I want, giving up pleasure and pain … I enter and remain in the fourth absorption. And so, sir, since I know and see like this, why should I rely on faith in another ascetic or brahmin who claims that there is a state of immersion without placing the mind and keeping it connected; that there is the cessation of placing the mind and keeping it connected?”
Another reason why vipassana jhanas (based on momentary concentration) is non-sense.
B Sujato has a quite Liberal translation of the term "savitakkaṃ savicāraṃ" = "placing the mind and keeping it connected".
savitakkaṃ = accompanied by reasoning / thought / reflection
Savicāra = accompanied by investigation
Following a more literal translation of B Bodhi.
"Well, venerable sir, to whatever extent I wish, secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, I enter and dwell in the first jhāna, which is accompanied by thought and examination,
with rapture and happiness born of seclusion. [S.IV.299] Then, to whatever extent I wish, with the subsiding of thought and examination, I enter and dwell in the second jhāna…. Then, to whatever extent I wish, with the fading away as well of rapture … I enter and dwell in the third jhāna…. Then, to whatever extent I wish, with the abandoning of pleasure and pain … I enter and dwell in the fourth jhāna."
I get the same message from reading that passage " being secluded from sensual pleasures and unwholesome states (which a untrained person is not) , one experiences rapture and happiness."
Sitting as well as less sensory stimulation are not mentioned as prerequisites for any jhana. Being secluded from sensual pleasures and unwholesome states are stated to be the only prerequisites of the first jhana. So it can happen in any posture and everywhere.
According to the logic of some people then whenever eg an arahan walked, stood, lied down or entered a village, his mind must have been full of sensuality and unwholesome states and void of any rapture and happiness. That's of course not the case.
According to the suttas, You can't talk in the second jhana (the sankharas of speech have stopped) , as well you can't move after the 4th jhana (bodily sankharas have stopped). Mental sankharas are active till the cessation of sanna vedana, "8th jhana". Another mistake of Ajahn Brahm.
Ajahn Brahm (and others) interpretated many of the pali words in the sutta Jhana descriptions in a way which contradicts the same and other suttas as well experience. That is more than clear to some (of course not to them and those who share their views) who compared his interpretations with standard literal pali translations and especially if you check how those terms are used in other suttas, context etc as has been done extensively in previous discussions.
That Ajahn Brahm makes mistakes is his problem. That's his kamma. As well people believing in his mistakes is their kamma. No problem for me. That people have problems with him making mistakes, like eg f Frank seems to have, is their problem, their Kamma.