Is Dukka arises (Samudaya) and perishes (Nirodha) the same time?

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rightviewftw
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Re: Is Dukka arises (Samudaya) and perishes (Nirodha) the same time?

Post by rightviewftw » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:07 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:01 am
Good point. If I have understood you correctly, I think it might be why some teachers in Ajahn Chah's tradition (especially Ajahn Sumedho) often emphasise paying attention to the ending of thoughts, or the "space between thoughts". It seems to be trying to catch a glimpse of that cessation, of the space between prisons.
When i started training i was also thinking similar thoughts of "space between moments" and imagined that if i could only focus well enough to discern the in-between of two moments of existence, maybe then i could discern the in-between time and come to know the not-time.

One thing that is quite related to this is Zeno's paradox which shows that we can not indefinitely divide time;
Last edited by rightviewftw on Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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budo
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Re: Is Dukka arises (Samudaya) and perishes (Nirodha) the same time?

Post by budo » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:13 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:47 am
Even tho dukkha constantly ceases it's cessation is not discerned because it is only replaced by new dukkha.

Discerning the cessation would require non-dukkha to be directly known instead of "new" arising dukkha.

Dukkha arises of and from dukkha thus all is simply dukkha and non-dukkha remain obstructed by incessant arising of dukkha.

If you only know two things and they are both suffering, then all you know is suffering.

If a person was born in a prison and all his life went from one prison to another, he would never know freedom from prison.

This is very important to understand.

Experience of being alive can be viewed as a mode of conditioned reality and it's cessation is to be discerned in light of a categorically different mode of unconditioned reality.

Whether one state of dukkha arises and perishes at the same time is not a valid question because time can only be discerned in as much as one state is replaced by another. If no change can be discerned then there is no time to speak of either, if there is change then there is the before and the after state and the before state has already ceased.
:goodpost:

rightviewftw
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Re: Is Dukka arises (Samudaya) and perishes (Nirodha) the same time?

Post by rightviewftw » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:35 pm

“But, indeed, that which, monks, is called ‘mind’, or ‘thought’, or ‘consciousness’, that, by night and by day, as other, indeed, arises, as other ceases. [6] Just as, monks, a monkey in the mountain-side forests, moving itself, [7] grasps a branch, then releasing that, grasps another, then releasing that, grasps another; even so, indeed, monks, that which is called ‘mind’, or ‘thought’, or ‘consciousness’: that, by night and by day, as other, indeed, arises, as other ceases.
this is a good simile that the Buddha gives here

SarathW
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Re: Is Dukka arises (Samudaya) and perishes (Nirodha) the same time?

Post by SarathW » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:12 pm

Agree.
Good posting Right View.
You have seen Nibbana.
:smile:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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cappuccino
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Re: Is Dukka arises (Samudaya) and perishes (Nirodha) the same time?

Post by cappuccino » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:39 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:12 pm
Good posting Right View.
You have seen Nibbana.
why do you say this?

SarathW
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Re: Is Dukka arises (Samudaya) and perishes (Nirodha) the same time?

Post by SarathW » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:43 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:39 pm
SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:12 pm
Good posting Right View.
You have seen Nibbana.
why do you say this?
I think that's all you have to know about Buddha's teaching.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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cappuccino
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Re: Is Dukka arises (Samudaya) and perishes (Nirodha) the same time?

Post by cappuccino » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:47 pm

I'm wary of misleading anyone

SarathW
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Re: Is Dukka arises (Samudaya) and perishes (Nirodha) the same time?

Post by SarathW » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:53 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:47 pm
I'm wary of misleading anyone
I am not misleading anyone.
That is how I see it.
but I may be wrong. It is just my opinion.
By the way, I felt that many of this forum has seen Nibbana. (not necessarily the Arahant)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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cappuccino
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Re: Is Dukka arises (Samudaya) and perishes (Nirodha) the same time?

Post by cappuccino » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:59 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:53 pm
By the way, I felt that many of this forum has seen Nibbana.
:shrug:

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