Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

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Strive4Karuna
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Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by Strive4Karuna » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:33 am

My family owns a small restaurant supply shop. 99% of the business is restaurantware but they do have a small section in their store dedicated to selling insecticides and pesticides.

The thing is, the business is operated by both my parents and my aunt and uncle so i would need to convince more then one person to stop selling it.

The real problen ive been thinking about is this.
If i try to convince them and they say no, or just laugh it off or nod there heads and continue to do so, i fear the kammic result would be even worst.Would it not be better that they do not know and continue selling rather then me telling them it is bad kamma and they continue to do so? Is it not worst for someone who knows they are doing wrong and continue to do so rather then someone who does not know he/she is doing wrong?

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dylanj
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by dylanj » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:37 am

No, it's better to tell them. Doing a bad deed & being aware of it is better than to do it unknowingly. I think generally people take this as counterintuitive. But knowing one is doing wrong, or even being confronted with the possibility of it being such, makes one less likely to continue. Even if they do not agree/believe you it might act as a seed for the future, or weaken their resolve in some way.
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:59 am

Just say it how it is if they doubt you tell them to get familiar with Pali Canon or just take your word for it and say you have to quit to back up you conviction.

Also you can look for alternative products maybe you can find some repellents in general not bio weapons.

If they do not comply id just quit.

Strive4Karuna
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by Strive4Karuna » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:08 am

dylanj wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:37 am
No, it's better to tell them. Doing a bad deed & being aware of it is better than to do it unknowingly. I think generally people take this as counterintuitive. But knowing one is doing wrong, or even being confronted with the possibility of it being such, makes one less likely to continue. Even if they do not agree/believe you it might act as a seed for the future, or weaken their resolve in some way.
Thanks Dylan!

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by JamesTheGiant » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:21 am

Tell them once.
Tell them twice.
Then never tell them again.
Don't be a fanatic Buddhist.
Don't be a fundamentalist.
Don't nag.
Don't pressure them.
Don't be that annoying Buddhist who gives all the others a bad name for being sanctimonious.

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:20 am

tell them three times
tell them four times
be a fanatic and a fundamentalist
this is your family, it is good to tell them what is right and wrong, sometimes you have to tell someone the truth again and again
the dichotomy presented by james is not valid in my view. sometimes a person will really not like what you say but it is what they needed to hear
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by JamesTheGiant » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:55 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:20 am
be a fanatic and a fundamentalist
The world does not need more pushy religious people, telling others what they think people should do. I'm sure ISIS argues the same way as you do, when they come to spread their message of militant Islam.

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:01 am

the world does need more pushy religious people, telling others what they think people should do
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:03 am

it's actually sad that evangelism of a skillful doctrine is compared to violent terrorism
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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Sam Vara
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:43 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:01 am
the world does need more pushy religious people, telling others what they think people should do
Unless you find a really creative and striking way of making your point, though, people who have ignored you once will ignore you again. You are then faced with the dilemma of either resorting to force, or committing to a path of resentment and futility.

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:51 am

force isn't really always bad. but i don't agree that you are presented with that dilemma. repeating something over and over is more than the sum of its parts. merit making isn't futile
i'm curious what references to the texts might support the arguments being made
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

https://www.facebook.com/noblebuddhadha ... 34/?type=3

http://seeingthroughthenet.net/
https://sites.google.com/site/santipada ... allytaught

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Sam Vara
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:10 am

Dhammarakkhito wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:51 am
force isn't really always bad. but i don't agree that you are presented with that dilemma. repeating something over and over is more than the sum of its parts. merit making isn't futile
i'm curious what references to the texts might support the arguments being made
If you try using force to resolve ethical issues such as family members legally selling insecticide, the consequences are unlikely to be good for anyone.

If you think that repeating something over and over and having no effect on others besides irritating them is meritorious, then why not avoid the irritation and just chant to oneself at home?

Image

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binocular
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by binocular » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:31 am

Strive4Karuna wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:33 am
The thing is, the business is operated by both my parents and my aunt and uncle so i would need to convince more then one person to stop selling it.
What religion are your parents, aunt, and uncle?

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Aloka
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by Aloka » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:08 pm

Strive4Karuna wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:33 am
My family owns a small restaurant supply shop. 99% of the business is restaurantware but they do have a small section in their store dedicated to selling insecticides and pesticides.

The thing is, the business is operated by both my parents and my aunt and uncle so i would need to convince more then one person to stop selling it.

The real problen ive been thinking about is this.
If i try to convince them and they say no, or just laugh it off or nod there heads and continue to do so, i fear the kammic result would be even worst.Would it not be better that they do not know and continue selling rather then me telling them it is bad kamma and they continue to do so? Is it not worst for someone who knows they are doing wrong and continue to do so rather then someone who does not know he/she is doing wrong?

Are they selling the insecticides and pesticides to the people who own the restaurants? In my country there are strict health and safety rules about food production and storage in shops and restaurants which make and sell ready to eat food. If health inspectors find any evidence of insect infestation, or rats and mice in a premises storing and serving food for people to eat, then it's likely to get closed down because of the health risks .

.

Strive4Karuna
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by Strive4Karuna » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:18 pm

Aloka wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:08 pm
Strive4Karuna wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:33 am
My family owns a small restaurant supply shop. 99% of the business is restaurantware but they do have a small section in their store dedicated to selling insecticides and pesticides.

The thing is, the business is operated by both my parents and my aunt and uncle so i would need to convince more then one person to stop selling it.

The real problen ive been thinking about is this.
If i try to convince them and they say no, or just laugh it off or nod there heads and continue to do so, i fear the kammic result would be even worst.Would it not be better that they do not know and continue selling rather then me telling them it is bad kamma and they continue to do so? Is it not worst for someone who knows they are doing wrong and continue to do so rather then someone who does not know he/she is doing wrong?

Are they selling the insecticides and pesticides to the people who own the restaurants? In my country there are strict health and safety rules about food production and storage in shops and restaurants which make and sell ready to eat food. If health inspectors find any evidence of insect infestation, or rats and mice in a premises storing and serving food for people to eat, then it's likely to get closed down because of the health risks .

.
Aloka, they sell to both restaurants and residential

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Aloka
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by Aloka » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:15 pm

i fear the kammic result would be even worst.Would it not be better that they do not know and continue selling rather then me telling them it is bad kamma and they continue to do so
While I believe that intentional actions can have consequences of one kind or another, I don't really believe in "punishment system" kamma stretching across different lifetimes. The Buddha also said that the precise results of kamma are unconjecturable:

https://suttacentral.net/en/an4.77

Why don't you just tell your parents that you think its wrong to kill other life forms and is there any way they'd consider not selling those products. If they're not Buddhists, I don't think there's much value in tellling them that they're going to have "bad kamma"!

Just my personal opinion of course, others may disagree.

Be well and happy,

Aloka :anjali:

dharmacorps
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by dharmacorps » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:44 pm

If you aren't in total control of the store, and don't have complete say in what is done, then I don't see what can be done other than voicing your opinion reasonably and clearing, but not persisting on it. This is mainly a concern of right livelihood in that selling poisons is not a trade that is recommended.

If it goes nowhere, then you can consider switching jobs if it bothers you enough.

James Tan
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by James Tan » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:45 pm

Hi there strive ,

Perhaps you can try suggest to them change to selling health products instead .
And share with them long term close contact with poisonous products could be harmful to ourself and others .

Regards .

Strive4Karuna
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by Strive4Karuna » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:44 am

James Tan wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:45 pm
Hi there strive ,

Perhaps you can try suggest to them change to selling health products instead .
And share with them long term close contact with poisonous products could be harmful to ourself and others .

Regards .
James i like that idea, dont know how much they would like it though. Thanks for the response

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Nwad
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Re: Convincing my family to stop selling insecticides, pesticides

Post by Nwad » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:13 pm

If you are not vegan yourself it will be difficult to tell others not to kill/harm someone while you do it... :roll:

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