I think I understand what you are saying and I am pretty much in agreement.one_awakening wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:35 pmI can understand that an apple can be regarded as intrinsically pleasant and desirable because it's food, it's sweet and has a pleasant taste, but someone may hate the taste of apples and find them unpleasant and undesirable. So how can we say that the apple is desirable independent of perceptions, if the second person finds it undesirable?
Another way to understand this discussion is to not think of an "object" as being some external thing and think of a thought or idea as being a "mental object". This is in accord with the suttas where it talks about the six sense facilities an their objects.....so there would be the eye an the eye object, the ear and the ear object....tongue, nose, body, and finally the mind and the mind object.
It then could be that part of the makeup of a mental object is its degree of pleasent-ness/unpleasent-ness. Taken this way it should be note that the pleasant/unpleasantness only endures as long as the thought endures.....which is really a very short time period.
This is not exactly my view but perhaps it will resonate with you.