How do you know if you've entered the stream?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Maarten
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Re: How do you know if you've entered the stream?

Post by Maarten » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:05 pm

budo wrote:How do you know if you've entered the stream?
Check if your boots are wet? :D

Circle5
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Re: How do you know if you've entered the stream?

Post by Circle5 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:36 am

The only way to know if one have entered the stream is to first know what one has to do in order to enter it. First question should be: how did people in the suttas achieved stream entry ? Have I done the same thing as they did, or have I focused on something else or tried doing thing in a different order, starting from top to bottom ? Have I tried first building the roof of the house and then the house ?

There are dozens of examples in the suttas about people achieving stream entry. All did it in the same way, none did it differently. There are even instances where they explain in detail how they did it.

So a first step would be to start reading the suttas for such examples. Then, we might find that these people were doing the same thing or a very different thing from what we are doing, so we need to be prepared to change some views that we have. And changing views, even against overwhealming evidence, is always extremely difficult.

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retrofuturist
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Re: How do you know if you've entered the stream?

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:47 am

Greetings Circle5,

Very well said.

:anjali:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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cappuccino
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Re: How do you know if you've entered the stream?

Post by cappuccino » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:36 am

… if these great trees could distinguish what is well spoken from what is ill spoken, I would proclaim these great trees to be Stream-Winners… bound for enlightenment …
Sarakaani Sutta
neither eternal identity, nor annihilation

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Crazy cloud
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Re: How do you know if you've entered the stream?

Post by Crazy cloud » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:15 am

You know you entered the stream when you stopped worrying about entering the stream



:smile:
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

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Aloka
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Re: How do you know if you've entered the stream?

Post by Aloka » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:56 am

Crazycloud wrote:You know you entered the stream when you stopped worrying about entering the stream
:twothumbsup:

Unexist
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Re: How do you know if you've entered the stream?

Post by Unexist » Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:28 pm

When your head below the feet of "...."

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zerotime
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Re: How do you know if you've entered the stream?

Post by zerotime » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:23 am

a sotapanna can reborn even 7 times. Then you cannot know what you are at all. Best thing is knowing your kamma is entangled with Dhamma and there is no backward. Just go forward and be happy and strong as you can; rescue that inner joy about your kamma it is a needed thing as a factor for enlightenment.

Disciple
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Re: How do you know if you've entered the stream?

Post by Disciple » Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:44 am

Best way of finding out is to drive on a busy highway with hyper aggressive drivers cutting you off left and right. If that doesn't make you want to kill someone or cuss out loudly then you are a stream enterer.

Garrib
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Re: How do you know if you've entered the stream?

Post by Garrib » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:37 am

Disciple wrote:Best way of finding out is to drive on a busy highway with hyper aggressive drivers cutting you off left and right. If that doesn't make you want to kill someone or cuss out loudly then you are a stream enterer.
Honestly, I used to get really irked in traffic - not so much anymore, and I definitely attribute the change to the Dhamma. Mostly just mindfulness, metta, and reflecting on the dangers of indulging in anger. I don't know if that makes you a stream enterer, but I think its definitely a good sign!

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stentoriusmaxim
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Re: How do you know if you've entered the stream?

Post by stentoriusmaxim » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:53 pm

I thought that Stream Entry was when a person first actualizes Sunyata.

Garrib
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Re: How do you know if you've entered the stream?

Post by Garrib » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:55 pm

stentoriusmaxim wrote:I thought that Stream Entry was when a person first actualizes Sunyata.
In the sense of realized the emptiness of self in the aggregates? That sounds like an aspect of the fruit of stream entry (the eradication of personality belief)

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JeffR
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Re: How do you know if you've entered the stream?

Post by JeffR » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:05 pm

Maarten wrote:
budo wrote:How do you know if you've entered the stream?
Check if your boots are wet? :D
:toast:

Good one, I was actually thinking something similar when I opened this thread today and laughed out load reading your response.
It's not just a joke though, there is a good metaphor there.
Therein what are 'six (types of) disrespect'? One dwells without respect, without deference for the Teacher; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Teaching; one dwells without respect, without deference for the Order; one dwells without respect, without deference for the precepts; one dwells without respect, without deference for heedfulness; one dwells without respect, without deference for hospitality. These are six (types of) disrespect.
:Vibh 945

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stentoriusmaxim
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Re: How do you know if you've entered the stream?

Post by stentoriusmaxim » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:27 pm

Garrib wrote:
stentoriusmaxim wrote:I thought that Stream Entry was when a person first actualizes Sunyata.
In the sense of realized the emptiness of self in the aggregates? That sounds like an aspect of the fruit of stream entry (the eradication of personality belief)
Short awnser:

Yes, like a reversal of the skhandas, try it for yourself:

Notice the parameter (almost 2d moniter like border) of eye consciousness, it is as if you took your fingers and put them at the borders, that eye concousness is seemingly larger then the physical eyes and maybe even the vision of the physical body (not the internal feeling), as if eye concousness sticks out maybe two feet left and right from the visual perception you have of your body. Can you focus on eye concousness and also put attention on your toe? Part of concousness moves there right and part stays (unless you have strong single pointed concentration or something). Point is you can chose to move awarness when focusing on something, and that awarness has no real size.

Now be aware that when you notice the total scope and borders of eye concousness awarness is coming from somewere. Maybe behind you. Not the physical space behind your head, I mean from within the inner observation there is nothing literally behind you (I don't mean
Minds eye either though it might help to visualize a little). So just settle "back" into awarness. Almost behind the eye consciousness I MEAN more right there like intensly close like closer then close, but it helps trying to settle back into it to get close.

Hopefully this help's you find the deathless no-self and see if you think you are a sotapanna. Anyways put it to the test.

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