Euthanasia

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JackV
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Euthanasia

Post by JackV » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:18 pm

Hi.

My dog has bone cancer and in a short while will not be able to walk. Despite this she will still be 'with it' in the sense that the cancer isn't yet affecting the rest of her, only her legs.
The vets say that when this time comes then the most loving thing to do is to Euthanise the animal as they will have no quality of life and the pain willl be increasing.
I agree with this but my question has to do with the moral repurcussions of such an act. Firstly, unlike a person going to say Dignitas clinic etc, my dog isn't aware of what is going to happen when I take her to the vet. She will be excited and happy to go there oblivious to the immenant end of her life. This seems incredibly underhand and sly. Secondly it is my decision to do this and as such I am responsible for the ending of a life a thing which I try with much effort to avoid.
What has the dhamma to say about this? Would the right thing to do be to let nature take its course and leave my dog to slowly decay whilst her pain increase, taking a step back to avoid responsibility and hence negative kamma?
Here where a thousand
captains swore grand conquest
Tall grasses their monument.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:22 pm

Bone cancer is extremely and increasingly painful, making almost, if not, impossible to control the pain via medication.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

PeterB
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by PeterB » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:01 pm

I wouldnt hesitate if she were my dog to have her euthanised , and to accept the kammic consequences.

David2
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by David2 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:36 pm

PeterB wrote:I wouldnt hesitate if she were my dog to have her euthanised , and to accept the kammic consequences.
In this case, I don't think there are any bad kammic consequences. The intention is the only important thing. If the intention is compassion, even killing has no bad kammic consequences

JackV
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by JackV » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:25 pm

Rahula wrote:
PeterB wrote:I wouldnt hesitate if she were my dog to have her euthanised , and to accept the kammic consequences.
In this case, I don't think there are any bad kammic consequences. The intention is the only important thing. If the intention is compassion, even killing has no bad kammic consequences
Yeah I thought that would propbably be the case. I fully agree with PeterB as well; it will be done regardless of the consequences since it is for the best. It's just that for something which is compassionate it is probably the least enjoyable thing I can currently think of.

Alas, what can you do eh? Sucks but thats life.

What is the view then do you think of Euthanasia in terms of people? I would think that the desire to end ones life would be considered grasping or Tanha for escape from pain. I mean I can completely understand it, yet with a system of thought that is designed to face these experiences head on, too see them for what they are and to remove clinging to them it seems as though the Dhamma would be opposed to it on a philosophical level.
Does anyone have any ideas about the mainstream view of this?
Here where a thousand
captains swore grand conquest
Tall grasses their monument.

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Fede
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by Fede » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:59 pm

Euthanasia for people is a whole different ball-game, and I think merits a thread of its own.

And I believe we have had several. if I am not mistaken.....
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Kim OHara
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:28 am

Fede wrote:Euthanasia for people is a whole different ball-game, and I think merits a thread of its own.

And I believe we have had several. if I am not mistaken.....
One long one here: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6087
(This link provided purely as a public service. I am not personally interested in the topic!)

:namaste:
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DNS
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by DNS » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:40 am

Definitely, a difficult issue . . . do you let someone wallow away in pain and suffering when the condition is terminal . . . or do you break the First Precept?

Dr. Kevorkian once said something like, "we have so much compassion for our pet dogs and cats. when they are terminal, we euthanize them. when it is a human, the best we can do is cut-off their food and water, which is pure torture and agonizing for the patient so that it dies a slow and painful death."

Bhante Dhammika has a good analysis of euthanasia in this article:

http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=Euthanasia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Will
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by Will » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:58 pm

Other considerations regarding euthanasia:

http://alexschadenberg.blogspot.ca

A reminder of what Buddha said in Sutta-Nipata:
Laying aside violence toward all living creatures,
both the firm & unfirm in the world,
one should not kill a living being, nor have it killed,
nor condone killing by others.
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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anthbrown84
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by anthbrown84 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:32 am

Ajahn brahm is amazing at helping people with these decisions

https://m.youtube.com/results?q=ajahn%2 ... nasia&sm=1
"Your job in practise is to know the difference between the heart and the activity of the heart, that is it, it is that simple" Ajahn Tate

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Will
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by Will » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:37 am

A good look at Buddhism on euthanasia is in Peter Harvey's Introduction of Buddhist Ethics, chapter seven.

An excerpt:
As Buddhism sees intention as crucial to the assessment of the morality of an act, however, it would not differentiate between active and passive means [or euthanasia] if these were intended to cause or hasten death. The Buddha’s strong condemnation of a monk or nun praising or aiding a suicide (see p.289) is here relevant. To kill a person deliberately, even if he or she requests this, is dealt with in the same way as murder.
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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Kim OHara
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:50 am

Modern medicine has opened up a large grey area which did not exist in the Buddha's time, since we can now keep people alive for far longer in spite of grave and inevitably terminal illnesses. In some cases, they will have a reasonable quality of life; in others, not. They may be in constant pain, or immobilised, or both. Rather than relying entirely on the scriptures, I think we need to ask ourselves how the Buddha might have approached the question in our circumstances.

:meditate:
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Will
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by Will » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:29 pm

Maybe the most comprehensive site on euthanasia and related topics:

http://www.euthanasia.com
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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Kim OHara
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:17 pm

Will wrote:Maybe the most comprehensive site on euthanasia and related topics:

http://www.euthanasia.com
May not be, too, because it is totally unbalanced. (Poorly organised and presented, too, but that's less significant.)
For a more balanced overview, why not start with wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia.
The BBC has an old but well-organised page - http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/euthanasia/ - on the topic, with 'pro' and 'con' arguments presented fairly.

:namaste:
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dylanj
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by dylanj » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:47 pm

It is killing & against the 1st precept. It is better to not do it.
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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Will
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by Will » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:25 pm

maranadhammomhi wrote:It is killing & against the 1st precept. It is better to not do it.
Quite so.

It odd to me that so many followers of Buddha have little confidence in kamma-phala. But medical technology, which deals with the body only, now that we revere.
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

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Will
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by Will » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:32 pm

Focused only on Netherlands, but the pattern of abuse will follow in other places & nations:

http://alexschadenberg.blogspot.ca/2017 ... -198492713
In the beginning, 98% of cases were terminally ill patients with perhaps days to live. That’s now down to 70%.
Whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. -- MN 19

paul
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by paul » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:50 pm

It's rationally thought out compassion, and will inevitably become worldwide practice:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... euthanasia
Victoria, Australia:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-14/e ... ia/9148928

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manas
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by manas » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:04 pm

I suspect that many older folks in nursing homes, will feel they 'ought' to be euthanized, so as 'not to be a burden' on their loved ones, which would be the wrong reason, but it might well happen.
Last edited by manas on Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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manas
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Re: Euthanasia

Post by manas » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:08 pm

Furthermore, it's a great way for Governments to avoid having to put more money into best practice palliative care. It's certainly cheaper to just offer patients a pill that will end their lives.
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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