Only in America

[BubbaBuddhist]

I find it difficult to speak of Buddhism to non-Buddhists, perhaps because of the parts of the country where I've lived. So I've learned just to not mention it. When I do talk about it the other person becomes confused rather quickly, so there's not much point in it anyway.

J

[octathlon]

Only in America? How about in Islamic countries for example?

That question points, probably by accident, to what I see as a sad paradox of the US: its self-image is that it is a free, enlightened, tolerant, rich, generous, equitable society - even 'the most' rather than 'a' free (etc) society - but its reality, on most of those measures, is closer to poor, extremely conservative, third-world societies.
The recent (ongoing) NY mosque debate illustrates it; the ongoing creationism-in-schools debate was an earlier example; and the wealth distribution, with its consequent chronic crime, illness and alienation, is appalling.
In spite of all this, nearly all of the Americans I know personally - here and in meatspace - are as genuinely nice, decent and well-intentioned as people from any other country. What on earth is going on?

Kim

So let's see, you say that actual people you talk to are like people from any other country... and this conflicts with your concept of the US as an entity with its "self-image"=X vs. "reality"=Y, and you ask what on earth is going on... I suggest thinking about it for a while and an answer will probably arise.

[Kim OHara]

So let's see, you say that actual people you talk to are like people from any other country... and this conflicts with your concept of the US as an entity with its "self-image"=X vs. "reality"=Y, and you ask what on earth is going on... I suggest thinking about it for a while and an answer will probably arise.

The trouble is that too many answers arise and I can't choose between them ... maybe they are all partially correct.

Kim

[Kenshou]

I find it difficult to speak of Buddhism to non-Buddhists...

Yep. I never mention it, besides to the few people I know very well. The average person seems to have a boatload of misconceptions about Buddhism or at best know a little about a random smatter of Mahayana stuff, which will then be dumped onto me, and I don't have the energy to set the record straight in either case. I've never been met with any obvious cruelty or disdain though, at least.

[AdvaitaJ]

The U.S. is a fairly big place and has a number of distinct geographical areas with distinct cultural differences. Where I live, the "midwest", people are generally tolerant although I do believe my career advancement potential would cease if my Buddhist practice were to become known at work.

I have also lived "in the South" and have travelled through areas of the country known as "the bible belt". In those areas, you'd be downright foolish to take up a permanent residence and let it be known you're a Buddhist (or a Hindu or a ______). Oh you'd probably be fine in some neighborhoods, even in the bible belt, but there are certainly large areas of the U.S. where vandalism or some form of hate crime would be considered socially acceptable against "one of them" despite being completely illegal.

There is a great deal of ignorance throughout the U.S. as to exactly what Buddhism means. Based on my own experience, I suspect most Americans, if they think about it at all, believe that Buddhists worship the Buddha as some sort of pagan god, believe in reincarnation, and have weird or unnatural secret rituals. The imagination is free to wander when facts are not known and that, I believe, is the best argument for doing something, anything, to help educate (NOT convert) my fellow Americans. Ignorance in this country about an issue as charged as religion can be hazardous to your health.

Regards: Jim

[octathlon]

There is a great deal of ignorance throughout the U.S. as to exactly what Buddhism means. Based on my own experience, I suspect most Americans, if they think about it at all, believe that Buddhists worship the Buddha as some sort of pagan god, believe in reincarnation, and have weird or unnatural secret rituals.

I agree with this assessment as regards my area of the central U.S., except the part about the "unnatural secret rituals" --I haven't heard anything like that. I think they just figure it's some other god that some people worship (the wrong one, of course ). Other areas, especially the west coast, seem to have a more positive or accepting attitude, from what I can tell.

Here's a link to a poll with some more specific numbers to it, but fewer religions are compared. I think Tilt's article made it sound worse than it might be, by not including the actual poll numbers and saying they like Buddhists only "slightly more" than Muslims.

[Kim OHara]

Thanks for the link, Octathlon.
Putting off the work I should be doing but don't feel like , I surfed my way around their related polls and found this one: http://www.gallup.com/poll/114211/Alaba ... ommon.aspx
which is also (IMO) relevant to the current discussion.

Kim

[Ben]

Hi Jon and Jim and all,

[quote="Bubba"I find it difficult to speak of Buddhism to non-Buddhists...[/quote]

Earlier in the week, as part of the 'personal development' program for our Year 10s, I gave two talks on the "Buddhist perspective on death and dying", and for the most part it was an intro to Theravada.
One of the things I said was, Personally, I find it difficult to talk about Buddhism [to non-Buddhists],
in large part because of precisely the same observations Jim and Jon has made:

There is a great deal of ignorance throughout the U.S. as to exactly what Buddhism means. Based on my own experience, I suspect most Americans, if they think about it at all, believe that Buddhists worship the Buddha as some sort of pagan god, believe in reincarnation, and have weird or unnatural secret rituals.

So part of the talk was to correct some of those misconceptions and stereotypes and tried to give a simple and accurate explanation of kamma and rebirth. Still, after talking about how Buddha wasn't the fat chinese guy (hotei), but someone else, and I even used a picture of the 'fasting Buddha', one of the students at the end of the talk asked, "So why is it good luck to rub Buddha's belly?". At least some of the kids were listening - unfortunately, he wasn't one of them!
Cheers

Ben

[octathlon]

Interesting, thanks Kim. From there I clicked the link for state-by-state results, and on that map you can see the bible belt area Jim was talking about. I suppose that the attitudes towards Buddhism would be less negative in the less religious areas...

Also I meant to add before, that for many people here, the image of the Dalai Lama is pretty much all they think of when they think of Buddhism. He is portrayed favorably by the media and people seem to have a positive view of him, which may help with their attitude towards Buddhism.

[texastheravadin]

Living in Texas, which is a hotbed of Christian conservatism, I can unequivocally say that the fewer people that know I'm Buddhist, the better.

It seems that the only religion anyone is allowed to talk about here is Protestant Christianity. Complete strangers have brought up their faith in Jesus for no apparent reason at all! I remember one time politely telling an older woman she didn't look her age. She smiled and started going on about how Jesus made her young. Everywhere I look, I see Jesus bumper stickers on cars. Being Caucasian, most people assume I'm Christian. Here in the "Bible Belt", it's seen as socially acceptable to push Christianity on others. Nobody seems to share my belief that religion is an intensely private matter that is nobody's business except your own. There are many people here who have no qualms about asking whether or not "Jesus is your Lord and Savior".

I'm not sure what their understanding of Buddhism is, but I'm pretty sure it's fairly remedial at best. Most people seem to think Buddha is worshiped as a god, that the Dalai Lama is the Emperor of all Buddhists, that all Buddhists are vegetarians and believe in reincarnation. I doubt many of them even realize that the Buddha was born in India - it's much more likely they seem him as being "Oriental" (i.e., Chinese or Japanese).

I'd say that on the totem poll of religious tolerance down here in the "Bible Belt", Buddhism probably ranks a little higher than Islam and atheism, but way lower than Judaism, Catholicism and Mormonism. Buddhists are pretty much lumped in with Hindus as being hell bound idol worshipers who don't eat cows because they think they may be eating their reincarnated grandmother.

I am proud to be Buddhist and I am proud to be American. But I'm also not stupid, and I value my life



Josh

[Monkey Mind]

I am thinking of the documentary movie "Dhamma Brothers", which follows a vipassana program in a prison in Alabama, USA. The film maker interviewed local townsfolk, and one woman called Buddhism "witchcraft". I suspect her opinion is representative of how much the average American knows about Buddhism.

[texastheravadin]

I am thinking of the documentary movie "Dhamma Brothers", which follows a vipassana program in a prison in Alabama, USA. The film maker interviewed local townsfolk, and one woman called Buddhism "witchcraft". I suspect her opinion is representative of how much the average American knows about Buddhism.

25904_NedFlanders.jpg (6.69 KiB) Viewed 3046 times

"I knew it! The Buddhism has led directly to witchcraft!" - Ned Flanders

[sattva]

I recently wrote in a post something my sister said and on some level I know she cares about me, but has almost no tolerance for a non-Christian religion. I have been a Buddhist for around 25 years.

It amazes me still the intolerance in this country for other religions and the very strong belief by American Christians that it is their duty to try to convert anyone who is not one. I have talked to a friend from the UK and he says it is different there.

There are places in this country where differences are more tolerated, but not where I live at the moment. Is it any wonder that I hope to some day move near a Dharma center?

[octathlon]

Wow, Josh, I knew it was like that in Texas, but that's even worse than I thought! We have people like that here in Kansas too, but usually the religious people here are more reserved and don't talk like that to strangers or casual acquaintances. Note I say usually, not always. Anyway, I certainly don't advertise my beliefs around here either.

Yay for Dhamma Wheel!

[DNS]

Living in Texas, which is a hotbed of Christian conservatism

I lived in Texas for about 8 years and I can confirm this too. There really is a pretty big cultural divide between some states and regions. The one thing I always remember is Sunday mornings and driving by all of those churches. The small ones, the medium-sized ones, the large ones; all had one thing in common -- they were packed! The parking lots were full and they often had private security to help direct traffic and help locate an open spot in their huge parking lots. And there were no shortage of churches; the suburbs had at least one on every block and they were all full.

Then I went to Colorado, Southern California, and Las Vegas and what a difference! There were few churches, little evangelizing and a diverse population.