Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

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Annapurna
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Re: Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

Post by Annapurna »

cooran wrote:Annapurna ~ please stop making personal remarks about other posters instead of discussing the issue at hand.´
Hello, Cooran, you speak to me a bit like a moderator, could you please be so kind and stop that? Thank you. And btw, I spoke in general, so nobody has to put on a shoe if it doesn't fit.


And I am always discussing the issue at hand, thank you for realizing this.


To all: I agree with this:

That whoever is against whale hunting, must be against the mass production of animal meat too.

Sentient beings are sentient beings.

Whales are threatened by extinction, and I think we could use our time well by figuring out how we can react in useful ways, such as signing petitions, boycotting Japanese products and so forth.

Cows too used to have families (herds), just like whales and mourn losses.

The cow mothers are upset too, when the calves are taken away to meet an early death.

To end up on our plates.

How awful.

I haven't eaten any cow or calf in ages, because one lady cow in chains keeps looking at me with her with big brown eyes, through all the years, causing mine to become wet.
Thank you.
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Re: Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

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OcTavO wrote:I think this is a complex issue that sadly has no simplistic answer. We could all argue about morality vs legality until we're blue in the face but ultimately a balance of both must be maintained to support the civilization we live in. I think the Dalai Lama understand this and thus his comments.
I think its actually not easy to discern what the Dalai Lama actually thinks on a number of issues.
He tends to put out statements and then put out a series of statements clarifying his statements.
I think that he is politically very naive and has demonstrated that fairly frequently...
Perhaps expecting anything else of him is unrealistic.
Once more we have the slightly surreal situation of a Theravada forum preoccupied with the pronouncements of someone whose views , even if they were to be expressed coherently, have no more to do with Theravada Dhamma than the thoughts of the Pope or Fidel Castro...
Personally I dont give a fig what someone who believes himself to be the incarnation of a mythical being, thinks about anything much...I am sure that he is a pleasant fellow and all that.
Although the New Kadampa folk may not agree .
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Re: Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

Post by Annapurna »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

The inevitable problem that the Dalai Lama comes up against time and time again is that he tries to encourage spiritual solutions for worldly problems.

Metta,
Retro. :)
Hello, Retro,

I suppose then he is in perfect alignment with the Dhamma and Buddha.

The Buddha also found spiritual solutions for worldly problems.

:anjali:
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Re: Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

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PeterB wrote:
OcTavO wrote:I think this is a complex issue that sadly has no simplistic answer. We could all argue about morality vs legality until we're blue in the face but ultimately a balance of both must be maintained to support the civilization we live in. I think the Dalai Lama understand this and thus his comments.
I think its actually not easy to discern what the Dalai Lama actually thinks on a number of issues.
He tends to put out statements and then put out a series of statements clarifying his statements.
I think that he is politically very naive and has demonstrated that fairly frequently...
Perhaps expecting anything else of him is unrealistic.
Once more we have the slightly surreal situation of a Theravada forum preoccupied with the pronouncements of someone whose views , even if they were to be expressed coherently, have no more to do with Theravada Dhamma than the thoughts of the Pope or Fidel Castro...
Personally I dont give a fig what someone who believes himself to be the incarnation of a mythical being, thinks about anything much...I am sure that he is a pleasant fellow and all that.
Although the New Kadampa folk may not agree .
I think its actually not easy to discern what the Dalai Lama actually thinks on a number of issues.
Most of all it is unknown to us what he is talking about in-chambers...
Once more we have the slightly surreal situation of a Theravada forum preoccupied with the pronouncements of someone whose views....have no more to do with Theravada Dhamma than the thoughts of the Pope or Fidel Castro...
Peter, the common denominator between Theravada and Tibetan Buddhism is still Buddhism, right?

I wonder what you think about this:

Why is the Dalai Lama brought up in Theravada forums...?

:reading:
Personally I dont give a fig what someone who believes himself to be the incarnation of a mythical being, thinks about anything much...
Mmm...it's more than him alone, right?

And Buddhists believe quite a few things, don't they?
And the infant stood, and took seven steps, and proclaimed “I alone am the World-Honored One!”
And Christians believe that Jesus was born by a virgin...

A few oddities they all have, huh? :smile:


Ty.

Anna
Last edited by Annapurna on Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Journey
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Re: Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

Post by Journey »

http://dalailama.com/news/post/545-his- ... an---day-2

"His Holiness said the group is trying to protect living beings and environment, this is good, but the method should be non-violent and peaceful."

That is all.


http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-med ... 621-1.html

” The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society respects the Dalai Lama and his guidance is of great value to the Society.”


That is all , folks.
Last edited by Journey on Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

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Whaling talks go behind closed doors By environment reporter Sarah Clarke

Image
"A dead minke whale sits next to the Japanese whaling vessel Yushin Maru"

The sticking point remains over a proposal to overturn a 24-year ban on commercial whaling (Australian Customs Service, file photo)

Video: IWC deadlocked over resuming commercial whaling (Lateline)
Related Story: Whaling Commission asked to probe bribery claims
Related Story: Japan, Pacific nations deny whaling bribery claims
Related Story: Compromise won't end whale slaughter: Garrett
Related Link: Whaling: What's at stake?


Within an hour of the International Whaling Commission (IWC) opening in Morocco, official talks were suspended for two days.

Representatives from more than 80 nations had gathered for the annual IWC meeting, set to be the most controversial in years.
But the deputy chair of the IWC has called for private talks to break the deadlock.

Australia is concerned by the development and says it shuts down the official process which has been underway for two years.

The sticking point remains over a proposal to overturn a 24-year ban on commercial whaling.

The package has split the anti-whaling block, with Australia now at odds with some of its former allies.
"The moratorium must remain in place and what we see in the proposal would in fact be sanctioning of commercial whaling in the Southern Ocean," Australia's IWC Commissioner Donna Petrochenko said.

But the IWC says only limited commercial whaling would be allowed. In return, Japan must cut its quota in the Southern Ocean.
Under the draft proposal, Japan would be allowed to catch 120 whales a year in its coastal waters.

Mick McIntyre from Whales Alive says the deal has split the anti-whaling nations.
"This is a deal that's being supported by what we once called our allies," he said.
"Pro-conservation countries like the US and New Zealand - how did this happen?"

Most contentious is allowing Japan to kill 10 endangered fin whales for the next five years, which is against the advice of the IWC's own scientific committee.
"There's no doubt fin whales have a long way to go in their recovery as do all virtually, if the whale's in the Southern Ocean," Australian Antarctic Division's spokesman Nick Gales said.
Environment Protection Minister Peter Garrett says the Australian Government cannot accept the compromise.

"Australia must be successful in opposing this shabby deal," he said.

"If such a deal were to go through, Australians would need to resign themselves to watching the slaughter of whales in the Southern Ocean year after year over the next decade."
This meeting is the most controversial in years.

As well as trying to negotiate a way forward for this deadlocked organisation, the IWC is also under pressure to investigate allegations its deputy chair had his hotel bill paid for by Japan and delegates are being offered prostitutes in return for their vote
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010 ... 933102.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

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I think that the role of the Dalai Lama and the perception of his status within the Vajrayana is symptomatic of a considerable barrier to any likelihood of establishing a commonality between the Theravada and The Vajrayana Anna.
He encapsulates the whole unacceptable pantheon of Tulkus, Dieties, and other accretions that obscure the face of the Vajrayana....and that are in fact reversions to an atavistic pre-Buddhist Vedic Religion of the kind that the Buddhas teaching was meant to undermine.
As to your second point..I have no idea why he pops up on these pages so frequently.
I could form a theory around the fact that the Theravada has no celebrity to be its face...a good thing btw..but it would just be a sketchy theory.
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Re: Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

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I have not read through all the post's but in my opinion FWIW it is unfortunate but the Dalai Lama has become the face and representative of all the schools and traditions of Buddhism in the world today. He is the "Pope" of Buddhism whether we like it or not. You cannot pick up a book in a bookstore without his name on the cover. Not even the Theravadin section is exempt. Heck he even wrote the forward in my copy of the Visuddhimagga. His views are excepted by the world to be the "Buddhist" view of things.

:anjali:
With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasaka Kee Nanayon
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Re: Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

This is a great article with pictures. You can click on a particular whale in a side menu and it shows the Conservation Status and measurements on the other side menu.
Brings up pictures of each type of whale and history.

Great whales
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science_and_ ... 340277.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
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Re: Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

Post by Annapurna »

Journey wrote:http://dalailama.com/news/post/545-his- ... an---day-2

"His Holiness said the group is trying to protect living beings and environment, this is good, but the method should be non-violent and peaceful."

That is all.


http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-med ... 621-1.html

” The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society respects the Dalai Lama and his guidance is of great value to the Society.”


That is all , folks.

Think so as well.
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Re: Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

Post by Annapurna »

PeterB wrote:I think that the role of the Dalai Lama and the perception of his status within the Vajrayana is symptomatic of a considerable barrier to any likelihood of establishing a commonality between the Theravada and The Vajrayana Anna.
He encapsulates the whole unacceptable pantheon of Tulkus, Dieties, and other accretions that obscure the face of the Vajrayana....and that are in fact reversions to an atavistic pre-Buddhist Vedic Religion of the kind that the Buddhas teaching was meant to undermine.
As to your second point..I have no idea why he pops up on these pages so frequently.
I could form a theory around the fact that the Theravada has no celebrity to be its face...a good thing btw..but it would just be a sketchy theory.
Thank you...
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Re: Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

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Whistleblower aims to expose dark side of Japanese whaling
'Mr Whale' alleges widespread criminality among former colleagues on mother ship of Japanese whaling fleet
http://americanbuddhist.net/whistleblow ... se-whaling" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

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bodom wrote:I have not read through all the post's but in my opinion FWIW it is unfortunate but the Dalai Lama has become the face and representative of all the schools and traditions of Buddhism in the world today. He is the "Pope" of Buddhism whether we like it or not. You cannot pick up a book in a bookstore without his name on the cover. Not even the Theravadin section is exempt. Heck he even wrote the forward in my copy of the Visuddhimagga. His views are excepted by the world to be the "Buddhist" view of things.

:anjali:
Actually, dear Bodom, I don't think it is all that unfortunate, because through his personality he is dear to so many, and attracts them into Buddhism! He is the huge gate these days...

:anjali:

And the Buddha said, that somebody who is following the Dhamma and right speech is dear to many.

I'm sure I should post a quote.

I will, if necessary. i think it's in right speech, somewhere....

Let me know if you need it.
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Re: Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

Post by OcTavO »

PeterB wrote: Once more we have the slightly surreal situation of a Theravada forum preoccupied with the pronouncements of someone whose views , even if they were to be expressed coherently, have no more to do with Theravada Dhamma than the thoughts of the Pope or Fidel Castro...
I think that's a bit of a stretch. In my (granted, limited) experience, the core teachings of the Dhamma are identical throughout every source I've read, be it Theravada or Mahayana. It's only when you pile the millenia of traditionalism on top of the mix and filter it through a variety of cultures that significant differences seem to emerge. The basics - the noble truths, the eightfold path, the three marks, the aggregates, dependent origination etc. are as embraced by the Dalai Lama as they are by any Theravadan practitioner. I doubt you could engage the Pope or Fidel Castro in a discussion about such things and expect them to hold the same view.
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Re: Dalai Lama criticises anti-whaling protesters

Post by PeterB »

Sorry Anna but we will have to agree to disagree.
I think the fact that Theravadin Buddhadhamma is associated with The Dalai Lama in the eyes of the public is doubly unfortunate.
Firstly because it does not represent an honest view of things as they are . It would be like claiming that the Pope is the authentic face of the Lutheran church.
Secondly because he actually represents a form of Buddhism which is a hotbed of superstition and medieval archaisms .

Tenzing Gyatso in short does not speak in my name.
Now if he is someone that you personally find inspiring that is up to you.
But he holds a number of views which are directly incompatible with the Theravada .
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