Is it a coincidence that all the Theravada Buddhist Countries (Burma, Laos, Thailand, Cambodia, Sri Lanka) are so under-develop? Some might say they are poor countries although it doesn't nececisarily reflect their quality of life. Do you think Theravada Buddhism had any contribution to their state of being? I personally prefer countries that are more natural than industrialized. What do you think, is it a good thing or a bad thing that these countries are still relatively primitive?
And when we look at Mahayana Buddhist Countries like Japan and China, they have a big economy and plenty of wealth. Quite the contrast to Theravada Buddhist Countries. Likewise, do you think Mahayana Buddhism play a role in shaping these countries? Or is it totally unrelated?
How come all the Theravada Countries so under-develop?
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Re: How come all the Theravada Countries so under-develop?
As a country, China is a huge economy, per capita, it is pretty low down the list. In general, Thailand seems to be higher in terms of GDP, etc. Moreover, other Mahayana countries like Mongolia, Nepal, (Ladakh as a region of India), (Buriat region of former USSR), (and if we look at Tibet, whether or not we call it part of China or not), they are also fairly low on the list.Wind wrote: And when we look at Mahayana Buddhist Countries like Japan and China, they have a big economy and plenty of wealth. Quite the contrast to Theravada Buddhist Countries. Likewise, do you think Mahayana Buddhism play a role in shaping these countries? Or is it totally unrelated?
So, perhaps it is just Japan, South Korea and Taiwan (which barely has independent national status, if at all), that are Mahayana and relatively wealthy.
Thus, I don't think that Mahayana vs Theravada seems to be a line which one can draw for such a comparison on wealth. Perhaps best to look elsewhere.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
- Goofaholix
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Re: How come all the Theravada Countries so under-develop?
Obviously you haven't been to Bangkok lately.
I think you'll find that most non Theravadin Buddhist countries in the same region; Indonesia, Malaysia, India, Vietnam etc are pretty much on a par. So I think the reasons are more likely regional or resource rather than religion based.
These countries are all near the equator, and around the world most counties near the equator are also on a similar level, (unless they have huge stockpiles of oil), this is the most obvious difference compared with North Asia.
I think you'll find that most non Theravadin Buddhist countries in the same region; Indonesia, Malaysia, India, Vietnam etc are pretty much on a par. So I think the reasons are more likely regional or resource rather than religion based.
These countries are all near the equator, and around the world most counties near the equator are also on a similar level, (unless they have huge stockpiles of oil), this is the most obvious difference compared with North Asia.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Re: How come all the Theravada Countries so under-develop?
Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... per_capita
Download the chart.
Print it out.
Pick up two hi-liters and mark Theravada countries in one colour, Mahayana in another.
Look for patterns.
Print it out again.
Hi-lite tropical countries.
Look for patterns.
No need for sophisticated statistical analysis.
Kim
Download the chart.
Print it out.
Pick up two hi-liters and mark Theravada countries in one colour, Mahayana in another.
Look for patterns.
Print it out again.
Hi-lite tropical countries.
Look for patterns.
No need for sophisticated statistical analysis.
Kim
Re: How come all the Theravada Countries so under-develop?
Is there a question beneath your question Wind ? Are you pehaps concerned that in some way the practices of the Theravada lead to a lessening of motivation in some areas of one's life ?
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Re: How come all the Theravada Countries so under-develop?
I think you'll find that Malaysia is well out in front of the others, here. Maybe it's downstream from Singapore ...Goofaholix wrote: I think you'll find that most non Theravadin Buddhist countries in the same region; Indonesia, Malaysia, India, Vietnam etc are pretty much on a par. So I think the reasons are more likely regional or resource rather than religion based.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
Re: How come all the Theravada Countries so under-develop?
What means "primitive"? According to such a point of view, Buddha's followers about 500 BC were "primitive" people, living in a "primitive", "poor" society with no access to any of modern day facilities. Yet they were the most advanced people this earth has known in the near past.Wind wrote:Is it a coincidence that all the Theravada Buddhist Countries (Burma, Laos, Thailand, Cambodia, Sri Lanka) are so under-develop? Some might say they are poor countries although it doesn't nececisarily reflect their quality of life. Do you think Theravada Buddhism had any contribution to their state of being? I personally prefer countries that are more natural than industrialized. What do you think, is it a good thing or a bad thing that these countries are still relatively primitive?
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli
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Re: How come all the Theravada Countries so under-develop?
Is it a coincidence? I'd say yes. I think it would be hard to find evidence to link Theravada Buddhism with the political-economic conditions of these countries.Wind wrote:Is it a coincidence that all the Theravada Buddhist Countries (Burma, Laos, Thailand, Cambodia, Sri Lanka) are so under-develop? Some might say they are poor countries.... Do you think Theravada Buddhism had any contribution to their state of being?
Is it a coincidence that these poor, undeveloped countries are all former colonies (with the exception of Thailand) of either the British or French colonial empires? I'd say no.
Is it hard to find evidence to link colonialism with the political and economic plight of these countries. Not at all.
Much has been written about the political upheavals that resulted from the colonization (and then decolonization) of not just Southeast Asia but also other places like Africa and the Americas. Much has also been written about such things as the North-South divide, global poverty and third world debt. A good place to start is good ol' Wikipedia. You'll find many good explanations for the 'primitiveness' of these countries.
With metta,
zavk
zavk
Re: How come all the Theravada Countries so under-develop?
Quite. The Bangkok Metropolitan Area has an estimated daytime population of up to 20 million people. Not many of them are happy peasants going off to work on buffaloes and elephants. And 'primitive'? Please.Obviously you haven't been to Bangkok lately.
Re: How come all the Theravada Countries so under-develop?
Primitive is being obsessed my materialism so deeply that you refinance your house three times and max out your credit cards in order to buy trash. Primitive is being so far in debt that when you face a job loss, you face homelessness as well. Primitive is living in the richest country in the world and not having affordable health care.
Rampant materialism is primitive. The West is trying to spread it around the world by holding it up as the ideal.
Rampant materialism is primitive. The West is trying to spread it around the world by holding it up as the ideal.
Though one may conquer a thousand times a thousand men in battle, yet he is indeed the noblest victor who conquers himself. ---Dhp 103
Re: How come all the Theravada Countries so under-develop?
Sooner or later, we'll have to pay the price too. Agrarian Economies will be laughing all the way to the ba... to the temple when the sheer weight of western debt, compounded with energy and food shortages finally delivers it's coup de grace to Western civilization.notself wrote: Rampant materialism is primitive. The West is trying to spread it around the world by holding it up as the ideal.
True wealth is not measured in dollars and iPods. If greed was HIV, then the West has just contracted full blown AIDs.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks
Re: How come all the Theravada Countries so under-develop?
Well said!notself wrote:Primitive is being obsessed my materialism so deeply that you refinance your house three times and max out your credit cards in order to buy trash. Primitive is being so far in debt that when you face a job loss, you face homelessness as well. Primitive is living in the richest country in the world and not having affordable health care.
Rampant materialism is primitive. The West is trying to spread it around the world by holding it up as the ideal.
Thanks everyone for your replies.
Re: How come all the Theravada Countries so under-develop?
Thailand?...Primitive?
Afraid to walk by the river at night because there are ghosts there?
Paying the local sooth sayer to pick a lucky day and hour for the blessing of your house?
Not contacting the gov't agricultural agent about questions in farming (its his job to know the answer or find it out...they are very knowledgeable and cooperative people) but instead do what the semi competant water delivery person says because he "said he does it this way all the time and his rice grows good"....and not ask any other source for another opinion..?
Always keeping your socks and underwear in the lowest drawer in the chest because they are for lowly parts of the body and should not be above the other clothing....ditto when hanging them up to dry....they need to be lower....?
Monks never touching a woman's hand even though the Buddha never taught this?
Women making lower wages for the same work?
Having something like 15 military coups in the last 50 years?
Never putting rich people in jail even if they are convicted for corruption or if they kill someone with a room full of witnesses?
Alcohol as a primary source of entertainment?
I could go on and on.......I live here....
chownah
Afraid to walk by the river at night because there are ghosts there?
Paying the local sooth sayer to pick a lucky day and hour for the blessing of your house?
Not contacting the gov't agricultural agent about questions in farming (its his job to know the answer or find it out...they are very knowledgeable and cooperative people) but instead do what the semi competant water delivery person says because he "said he does it this way all the time and his rice grows good"....and not ask any other source for another opinion..?
Always keeping your socks and underwear in the lowest drawer in the chest because they are for lowly parts of the body and should not be above the other clothing....ditto when hanging them up to dry....they need to be lower....?
Monks never touching a woman's hand even though the Buddha never taught this?
Women making lower wages for the same work?
Having something like 15 military coups in the last 50 years?
Never putting rich people in jail even if they are convicted for corruption or if they kill someone with a room full of witnesses?
Alcohol as a primary source of entertainment?
I could go on and on.......I live here....
chownah
Re: How come all the Theravada Countries so under-develop?
Because Theravada doesn't have The Great Sutra on Material Well-Being and the mantra to the Buddha of Infinite Wealth?
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Re: How come all the Theravada Countries so under-develop?
As far as I'm concerned, the not-so-well-defined "primitivity", whatever it is, ultimately is a manifestation of ignorance, and in that respect, all countries, all communities, and all socio-economic classes are "primitive" in one way or the other. Ignorance does not depend on religion, wealth, or geographic location.
I'm sure we can build a similar list as chownah's for 99% of the countries in the world.
Dhammabodhi
I'm sure we can build a similar list as chownah's for 99% of the countries in the world.
Dhammabodhi
"Take rest, take rest."-S.N.Goenka