Is it at all possible to get rid of poverty entirely?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
binocular
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Re: Is it at all possible to get rid of poverty entirely?

Post by binocular » Sat May 26, 2018 4:23 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 11:24 am
Should we accept once and for all that poverty is going to be there .. that it cannot be wiped out entirely?
What exactly is so bothersome, so troubling, so offensive about poverty?

I think those implicit assumptions need to be brought to the fore and explored first, before one can attempt to think about solutions to the problem of poverty.

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budo
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Re: Is it at all possible to get rid of poverty entirely?

Post by budo » Sat May 26, 2018 5:25 pm

binocular wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 4:23 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 11:24 am
Should we accept once and for all that poverty is going to be there .. that it cannot be wiped out entirely?
What exactly is so bothersome, so troubling, so offensive about poverty?

I think those implicit assumptions need to be brought to the fore and explored first, before one can attempt to think about solutions to the problem of poverty.
Yes and poverty is not necessarily static. I think poverty is over-emphasized, and I prefer Milton Friedman's argument that class mobility is even more important. There have been many people who went from rags to riches, or even just a comfortable lifestyle from working hard. My parents came to North America with nothing and living in a basement and are now in the 1% just from working their butts off.

I've also lived in Germany for 4 years and due to huge regulations and high taxes class mobility is incredibly low.

Equality of opportunity is more important than equality of outcome. No one deserves a piece of cake unless they put the effort into making it (or bringing the means of production like machinery), that's the definition of fairness. Milton Friedman on class mobility



I'm probably never going to be as rich as my parents, but I don't need to be because I don't have their material desires, I'm happy living a simple life with more free time than living a busy life with more possessions.

The point is that I am capable of choosing the lifestyle I want, if I were living in a country with 40-50% tax like Germany then I'd never be able to work hard at first, make a lot of money, then invest it into passive income and retire early. There's rich and then there's financial independence and in my opinion people can't even be altruistic and help others when they've been handicapped from the get go. You can't give to anyone if you have nothing to give.

santa100
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Re: Is it at all possible to get rid of poverty entirely?

Post by santa100 » Sat May 26, 2018 5:39 pm

Per MN 135:
There is the case where a woman or man is not a giver of food, drink, cloth, sandals, garlands, scents, ointments, beds, dwellings, or lighting to brahmans or contemplatives. Through having adopted & carried out such actions, on the break-up of the body, after death he/she reappears in the plane of deprivation... If instead he/she comes to the human state, he/she is poor wherever reborn. This is the way leading to poverty: not to be a giver of food, drink, cloth, sandals, garlands, scents, ointments, beds, dwellings, or lighting to brahmans or contemplatives."
So, is it at all possible to get rid of poverty entirely? Maybe, as long as it's possible for humans to get rid of stinginess entirely.

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Is it at all possible to get rid of poverty entirely?

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Sun May 27, 2018 3:35 am

yes, just give everything away
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chownah
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Re: Is it at all possible to get rid of poverty entirely?

Post by chownah » Sun May 27, 2018 4:42 am

It is impossible to get rid of poverty entirely because if someone finds a way then someone else changes the definition of poverty.....just look at how this thread has gone and even how some people have stated a definition and then assumed another definition in following posts.
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binocular
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Re: Is it at all possible to get rid of poverty entirely?

Post by binocular » Sun May 27, 2018 7:39 am

binocular wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 4:23 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 11:24 am
Should we accept once and for all that poverty is going to be there .. that it cannot be wiped out entirely?
What exactly is so bothersome, so troubling, so offensive about poverty?

I think those implicit assumptions need to be brought to the fore and explored first, before one can attempt to think about solutions to the problem of poverty.
No takers?

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Pseudobabble
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Re: Is it at all possible to get rid of poverty entirely?

Post by Pseudobabble » Sun May 27, 2018 9:56 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_distribution
Pareto originally used this distribution to describe the allocation of wealth among individuals since it seemed to show rather well the way that a larger portion of the wealth of any society is owned by a smaller percentage of the people in that society. He also used it to describe distribution of income.[8] This idea is sometimes expressed more simply as the Pareto principle or the "80-20 rule" which says that 20% of the population controls 80% of the wealth.[9] However, the 80-20 rule corresponds to a particular value of α, and in fact, Pareto's data on British income taxes in his Cours d'économie politique indicates that about 30% of the population had about 70% of the income. The probability density function (PDF) graph at the beginning of this article shows that the "probability" or fraction of the population that owns a small amount of wealth per person is rather high, and then decreases steadily as wealth increases. (Note that the Pareto distribution is not realistic for wealth for the lower end. In fact, net worth may even be negative.) This distribution is not limited to describing wealth or income, but to many situations in which an equilibrium is found in the distribution of the "small" to the "large".
I don't think its possible.

There are always going to be some people, places, industries etc that are more productive than others - which means they will have a larger share of the gains to be made by producing. Poverty is relative, so as long as there is a wealth distribution at all, some people are going to be poor.
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No_Mind
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Re: Is it at all possible to get rid of poverty entirely?

Post by No_Mind » Sun May 27, 2018 10:56 am



:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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