Harry, Meghan and my Papañca

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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No_Mind
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Re: Harry, Meghan and my Papañca

Post by No_Mind » Tue May 22, 2018 1:37 am

binocular wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 7:26 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 7:11 am
binocular wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 7:05 am

While being part of the RF, she was very unhappy.
She divorced when young .. received alimony of $22.5 million and $600,000 every year and kept her Kensington Palace apartment.
She had affairs before and after marriage .. cannot really see her misery.
There are recorded interviews with her where she clearly said how unhappy she was when married to Charles.
She was unhappy due to her hedonism. Had nothing to do with RF. I suggest you study her life in greater detail.

She took a wrong decision .. she married a man 13 years elder to her because she thought it would be fun. When she found out it was not fun .. she got a very nice settlement. If Charles cheated on her .. she also cheated on Charles (before divorce). Her hedonism led to her misery not the RF per se

What happened to her (husband cheating with another woman) happens to millions of women .. but they do not get a fraction of the sympathy or the alimony she received. She was well compensated for her problems.

Surely you have taken a wrong decision in your life. No one gave you $22.5 million and an annuity of $600,000 for your error (back in 1996 when things were cheaper)
binocular wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 7:26 pm
cannot really see her misery.
Do you really think that money and affairs guarantee that a person will be happy??????? !
No one is naive enough to believe that money guarantees happiness .. but I would rather sob over lost love while sipping Dom Perignon in Tahiti (while someone massages my back with warm oil) than be suffering rape in hands of dozen sweaty, hefty men belonging to Boko Haram in Africa or be crying due angina pain because I cannot buy ranolazine since I cannot afford $450 a month

All miseries are not the same. Get over your naivete.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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DNS
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Re: Harry, Meghan and my Papañca

Post by DNS » Tue May 22, 2018 2:03 am

I mostly agree with No_Mind; misery can come in all socioeconomic classes, but clearly the most misery is among the impoverished. The biggest gain in happiness comes when one comes out of poverty. It continues to rise up to the peak at about middle-class to upper-middle class. After that it is diminishing returns with the rich still relatively happy, but the line starts to decrease slightly due to the extra stress from increased responsibilities, increased expectations placed upon them, etc. For Royals, we could place them in the upper classes, diminishing returns area of the graph with the happiness line going down slightly, but no where near the poverty level of misery.

Image

(dollar numbers are from 2010 so we may need to increase those for inflation, to around $100 K or so)

Disciple
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Re: Harry, Meghan and my Papañca

Post by Disciple » Tue May 22, 2018 2:30 am

Didn't care much for the wedding but Amal Clooney looked fine as hell. :jawdrop:

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Kim OHara
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Re: Harry, Meghan and my Papañca

Post by Kim OHara » Tue May 22, 2018 4:10 am

The thread is wandering all over the place at this stage so I can't possibly be OT :tongue:
Here's a really good look at the way Meghan was identified, from one of our best journalists, and one who happens to have considerable personal experience of the issue.
What race is Meghan Markle? The world has seemed obsessed with the question.

The Royal wedding commentary returned to it time and again, as the bride was referred to as "mixed race" or "biracial".

One British commentator part of ABC's coverage, even wondered ridiculously about the future children of Meghan and Harry who, in her words, could be "all sorts of colours".

Race does not exist. ...

Scientifically, race is rubbish: yet, it matters. It matters because as a society we have made it matter. ... It is an utterly discredited notion; scientists know it is nonsense to even speak of race. ...

Historian and social scientist David Hollinger has called for Americans to "push yet harder against the authority that shape and colour have historically been allowed by society to exert over our culture".

Hollinger, in his book Post-ethnic America, dismisses the idea of "fixed" identities, he favours making room for new communities that promotes solidarity between people beyond definitions of race or ethnicity.

As he says we "live in an age not of identities but affiliations".

It is a worthy idea that remains a work in progress. ...
:reading: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-22/r ... al/9786206

:namaste:
Kim

SarathW
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Re: Harry, Meghan and my Papañca

Post by SarathW » Tue May 22, 2018 5:14 am

What race is Meghan Markle?
My biggest question is how this new discoveries come just before a major event.
Few years before Obama became the First black president the theory of human evolution dated back to Africa.
Few month before Meghan became Royal, Cheddar man in England came to news.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... is-reveals
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Dhammanando
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Re: Harry, Meghan and my Papañca

Post by Dhammanando » Tue May 22, 2018 5:53 am

Walter Bagehot on the British monarchy and royal weddings

“The best reason why monarchy is a strong government is, that it is an intelligible government. The mass of mankind understand it, and they hardly anywhere in the world understand any other. It is often said that men are ruled by their imaginations; but it would be truer to say they are governed by the weakness of their imaginations. The nature of a constitution, the action of an assembly, the play of parties, the unseen formation of a guiding opinion, are complex facts, difficult to know, and easy to mistake. But the action of a single will, the fiat of a single mind, are easy ideas; anybody can make them out, and no one can ever forget them. When you put before the mass of mankind the question, ‘Will you be governed by a king, or will you be governed by a constitution?’ the inquiry comes out thus – ‘Will you be governed in a way you understand, or will you be governed in a way you do not understand?’ The issue was put to the French people; they were asked, ‘Will you be governed by Louis Napoleon, or will you be governed by an assembly?’ The French people said, ‘We will be governed by the one man we can imagine, and not by the many people we cannot imagine.’ ”

[…]

“A family on the throne is an interesting idea also. It brings down the pride of sovereignty to the level of petty life. No feeling could seem more childish than the enthusiasm of the English at the marriage of the Prince of Wales. They treated as a great political event, what, looked at as a matter of pure business, was very small indeed. But no feeling could be more like common human nature, as it is, and as it is likely to be. The women – one half the human race at least – care fifty times more for a marriage than a ministry.”

[…]

“To state the matter shortly, royalty is a government in which the attention of the nation is concentrated on one person doing interesting actions. A republic is a government in which that attention is divided between many, who are all doing uninteresting actions. Accordingly, so long as the human heart is strong and the human reason weak, royalty will be strong because it appeals to diffused feeling, and republics weak because they appeal to understanding.”

(The English Constitution, 1867)

binocular
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Re: Harry, Meghan and my Papañca

Post by binocular » Tue May 22, 2018 9:00 am

No_Mind wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 1:37 am
Surely you have taken a wrong decision in your life. No one gave you $22.5 million and an annuity of $600,000 for your error (back in 1996 when things were cheaper)
I don't believe that socioeconomic classes and socioeconomic classism are bad, I also don't believe that life isn't fair.
That's why I don't have such problems as you (even though people often project that I have such problems).
No_Mind wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 1:37 am
All miseries are not the same.
Never said they were.
Get over your naivete.
Pfft.
Sweetie, you're the one with your head up in the clouds. :tongue:
Last edited by binocular on Tue May 22, 2018 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

binocular
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Re: Harry, Meghan and my Papañca

Post by binocular » Tue May 22, 2018 9:03 am

DNS wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 2:03 am
I mostly agree with No_Mind; misery can come in all socioeconomic classes, but clearly the most misery is among the impoverished. The biggest gain in happiness comes when one comes out of poverty. It continues to rise up to the peak at about middle-class to upper-middle class. After that it is diminishing returns with the rich still relatively happy, but the line starts to decrease slightly due to the extra stress from increased responsibilities, increased expectations placed upon them, etc. For Royals, we could place them in the upper classes, diminishing returns area of the graph with the happiness line going down slightly, but no where near the poverty level of misery.
By what standards do these studies measure misery and happiness?
By consumerist, worldly standards?

SarathW
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Re: Harry, Meghan and my Papañca

Post by SarathW » Tue May 22, 2018 9:42 am

By what standards do these studies measure misery and happiness?
Agree.
Those surveys are no different to my survey.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=30709
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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DNS
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Re: Harry, Meghan and my Papañca

Post by DNS » Tue May 22, 2018 3:37 pm

binocular wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 9:03 am
By what standards do these studies measure misery and happiness?
By consumerist, worldly standards?
I believe it is by self-reporting of their happiness on those surveys. For some that might be worldly standards, for others it might be loftier, spiritual type happiness, general physical and psychological well-being, etc.

binocular
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Re: Harry, Meghan and my Papañca

Post by binocular » Tue May 22, 2018 6:29 pm

DNS wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 3:37 pm
I believe it is by self-reporting of their happiness on those surveys. For some that might be worldly standards, for others it might be loftier, spiritual type happiness, general physical and psychological well-being, etc.
Those are very mixed and unclear standards then. How can they be reliable?

Moreover, when people self-report, they possibly present a more favorable image of themselves than they actually have most of their time. Someone could be miserable much of their days, but when questioned directly about their happiness, will say that they're quite happy.

For example, when I was little, I was raised to always answer "Thank you, I'm fine" whenever anyone asks me "How do you do?" It was a lesson that I was slow to learn, as I would answer truthfully each time, half of which was that I wasn't fine. After that, I was taught quite explicitly that regardless of how I feel, I must always reply "Thank you, I'm fine". I remember distinctly how exasperated my educators were with me.
I'm quite sure I'm not the only one who raised to always present an optimistic, positive persona.

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No_Mind
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Re: Harry, Meghan and my Papañca

Post by No_Mind » Wed May 23, 2018 1:40 am

DNS wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 2:03 am
I mostly agree with No_Mind; misery can come in all socioeconomic classes, but clearly the most misery is among the impoverished. The biggest gain in happiness comes when one comes out of poverty. It continues to rise up to the peak at about middle-class to upper-middle class. After that it is diminishing returns with the rich still relatively happy, but the line starts to decrease slightly due to the extra stress from increased responsibilities, increased expectations placed upon them, etc. For Royals, we could place them in the upper classes, diminishing returns area of the graph with the happiness line going down slightly, but no where near the poverty level of misery.
This is quite a well known study by a psychologist and a Nobel Laureate in economics back in 2010.

"Are you satisfied" can be answered quite accurately. That flattened out at $75,000 (meaning people earning below $75,000 were not satisfied with their income)

This is link to the full research conducted by Daniel Kahneman and Angus Deaton giving details of how happiness or satisfaction was measured by them

http://www.princeton.edu/~deaton/downlo ... st2010.pdf

Now obviously one can toss it out and continue to argue .. but I being what I am (rational man) will believe opinion and findings of a Nobel Laureate over ceaseless and unsupported arguments from an anonymous user_id from central Europe any day.

Thanks David for showing the graph. Will spend a day or two reading the research paper I unearthed.


:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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Kim OHara
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Re: Harry, Meghan and my Papañca

Post by Kim OHara » Thu May 24, 2018 6:07 am

missed-out.jpg
missed-out.jpg (80.86 KiB) Viewed 184 times

Michael Leunig, one of our best cartoonists and a gentleman well aware of social justice and mental health issues, makes a comment which is completely in line with my own prime reason for rejecting the wedding hoopla.

:namaste:
Kim

Meezer77
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Re: Harry, Meghan and my Papañca

Post by Meezer77 » Thu May 24, 2018 10:40 am


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