Buddhists bowing to golden statues...

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sentinel
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Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: Buddhists bowing to golden statues...

Post by sentinel » Sat May 05, 2018 3:04 pm

I listened to one Mahayana old monk said before , he pointed out that bowing to the Buddha(image) actually can be a way to tame our ego. Many people thinks highly of themselves and that is conceit. When one bow and paying respect to Buddha , one acknowledged that someone else is actually can be our teacher. And as a student showing some respect is necessary and a humble attitude .
:coffee:

budo
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Re: Buddhists bowing to golden statues...

Post by budo » Sat May 05, 2018 3:30 pm

The way I see it the Buddha discovered the way to freedom from suffering and is sharing with people how to do it. Just like Einstein discovered the theory of relativity. Bowing down to Einstein isn't going to help me with applying the theory of relativity. If someone gives me a manual to fix my car, turning the manual into a religion isn't going to fix my car. This is why Rituals are a fetter, if the Buddha gives you medicine and you bow down to the Buddha instead of taking the medicine, you're not getting rid of illness, you're still going to be sick.

Some people say they do it out of respect, I can show respect without prostrating. When a doctor gives me medicine and heals me, I respect the doctor without having to bow down or light candles or make a statue of the doctor. In fact I'll tell people that the doctor helped me and they should visit that doctor. Also why would the Buddha require respect in the first place? If a boulder falling on him or murderers chasing him doesn't affect him why would bowing down or giving him respect affect him? It seems like everyone but the Buddha himself is demanding respect.

There is the Dhamma and then there is Buddhism the religion, one leads to freedom from suffering, the other one leads to rites and rituals. Just look at how many Buddhists there are who have not attained a single thing.

sentinel
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Re: Buddhists bowing to golden statues...

Post by sentinel » Sun May 06, 2018 6:13 am

budo wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 3:30 pm
The way I see it the Buddha discovered the way to freedom from suffering and is sharing with people how to do it. Just like Einstein discovered the theory of relativity. Bowing down to Einstein isn't going to help me with applying the theory of relativity. If someone gives me a manual to fix my car, turning the manual into a religion isn't going to fix my car. This is why Rituals are a fetter, if the Buddha gives you medicine and you bow down to the Buddha instead of taking the medicine, you're not getting rid of illness, you're still going to be sick.

Some people say they do it out of respect, I can show respect without prostrating. When a doctor gives me medicine and heals me, I respect the doctor without having to bow down or light candles or make a statue of the doctor. In fact I'll tell people that the doctor helped me and they should visit that doctor. Also why would the Buddha require respect in the first place? If a boulder falling on him or murderers chasing him doesn't affect him why would bowing down or giving him respect affect him? It seems like everyone but the Buddha himself is demanding respect.

There is the Dhamma and then there is Buddhism the religion, one leads to freedom from suffering, the other one leads to rites and rituals. Just look at how many Buddhists there are who have not attained a single thing.
It seems in Buddha's time people circumambulating Him to show respect .
Can circumambulating the Buddha get one to attain liberation ? Surely No. But, paying respect to Buddha and arahant is quite different from a doctor or scientist .
According to Buddha's teaching , an arahant or Buddha is worthy of offering , hospitality , gift, reverential salutation , incomparable field of merits .
If paying a prostration is about one status or face , then arrogance is the actual obstacle.
Arrogance is a fetter , right ?
:coffee:

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Grigoris
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Re: Buddhists bowing to golden statues...

Post by Grigoris » Sun May 06, 2018 7:29 am

I don't care what colour and material the Buddha statue is, I'm bowing to it! :tongue:
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

Saengnapha
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Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

Re: Buddhists bowing to golden statues...

Post by Saengnapha » Sun May 06, 2018 7:37 am

grigoris wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 7:29 am
I don't care what colour and material the Buddha statue is, I'm bowing to it! :tongue:
It's a lot easier here in Thailand to Wai than in Tibet, doing full prostrations. :D Must be rough on the knees and the forehead! How many lifetimes does it take?

budo
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:16 am

Re: Buddhists bowing to golden statues...

Post by budo » Sun May 06, 2018 7:56 am

James Tan wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:13 am
budo wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 3:30 pm
The way I see it the Buddha discovered the way to freedom from suffering and is sharing with people how to do it. Just like Einstein discovered the theory of relativity. Bowing down to Einstein isn't going to help me with applying the theory of relativity. If someone gives me a manual to fix my car, turning the manual into a religion isn't going to fix my car. This is why Rituals are a fetter, if the Buddha gives you medicine and you bow down to the Buddha instead of taking the medicine, you're not getting rid of illness, you're still going to be sick.

Some people say they do it out of respect, I can show respect without prostrating. When a doctor gives me medicine and heals me, I respect the doctor without having to bow down or light candles or make a statue of the doctor. In fact I'll tell people that the doctor helped me and they should visit that doctor. Also why would the Buddha require respect in the first place? If a boulder falling on him or murderers chasing him doesn't affect him why would bowing down or giving him respect affect him? It seems like everyone but the Buddha himself is demanding respect.

There is the Dhamma and then there is Buddhism the religion, one leads to freedom from suffering, the other one leads to rites and rituals. Just look at how many Buddhists there are who have not attained a single thing.
It seems in Buddha's time people circumambulating Him to show respect .
Can circumambulating the Buddha get one to attain liberation ? Surely No. But, paying respect to Buddha and arahant is quite different from a doctor or scientist .
According to Buddha's teaching , an arahant or Buddha is worthy of offering , hospitality , gift, reverential salutation , incomparable field of merits .
If paying a prostration is about one status or face , then arrogance is the actual obstacle.
Arrogance is a fetter , right ?
No, conceit is a fetter. At least giving a monk food or a place to stay is useful to them and keeps them alive. I'd rather donate food and shelter than bow down to a piece of metal or concrete. Speaking of conceit, the bigger the statue the bigger the ego of the organization that put it there. I personally don't like seeing a huge cross or jesus statue in countries I've traveled, or those muslim towers blasting prayers through their speakers, can't imagine how others would feel about huge statues, comes off as obnoxious, pushy and boasting.

I'd imagine the bigger the boasting the less they know about humbleness, the more conceit they have. The smaller the statue the better, no need to invade people's senses and sense of space with religious symbolism.

The Buddha constantly spoke about the recluse life, living in seclusion, emptiness, quietude. Seems to me getting in people's faces is quite the opposite. Makes me wonder how many people actually understand the Buddha's teaching.
Last edited by budo on Sun May 06, 2018 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

sentinel
Posts: 2152
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: Buddhists bowing to golden statues...

Post by sentinel » Sun May 06, 2018 8:17 am

budo wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 7:56 am
James Tan wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:13 am
budo wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 3:30 pm
The way I see it the Buddha discovered the way to freedom from suffering and is sharing with people how to do it. Just like Einstein discovered the theory of relativity. Bowing down to Einstein isn't going to help me with applying the theory of relativity. If someone gives me a manual to fix my car, turning the manual into a religion isn't going to fix my car. This is why Rituals are a fetter, if the Buddha gives you medicine and you bow down to the Buddha instead of taking the medicine, you're not getting rid of illness, you're still going to be sick.

Some people say they do it out of respect, I can show respect without prostrating. When a doctor gives me medicine and heals me, I respect the doctor without having to bow down or light candles or make a statue of the doctor. In fact I'll tell people that the doctor helped me and they should visit that doctor. Also why would the Buddha require respect in the first place? If a boulder falling on him or murderers chasing him doesn't affect him why would bowing down or giving him respect affect him? It seems like everyone but the Buddha himself is demanding respect.

There is the Dhamma and then there is Buddhism the religion, one leads to freedom from suffering, the other one leads to rites and rituals. Just look at how many Buddhists there are who have not attained a single thing.
It seems in Buddha's time people circumambulating Him to show respect .
Can circumambulating the Buddha get one to attain liberation ? Surely No. But, paying respect to Buddha and arahant is quite different from a doctor or scientist .
According to Buddha's teaching , an arahant or Buddha is worthy of offering , hospitality , gift, reverential salutation , incomparable field of merits .
If paying a prostration is about one status or face , then arrogance is the actual obstacle.
Arrogance is a fetter , right ?
No, conceit is a fetter. At least giving a monk food or a place to stay is useful to them and keeps them alive. I'd rather donate food and shelter than bow down to a piece of metal or concrete. Speaking of conceit, the bigger the statue the bigger the ego of the organization that put it there. I personally don't like seeing a huge cross or jesus statue in countries I've traveled, or those muslim towers blasting prayers through their speakers, can't imagine how others would feel about huge statues, comes off as obnoxious, pushy and boasting.

I'd imagine the bigger the boasting the less they know about humbleness, the more conceit they have. The smaller the statue the better, no need to invade people's senses and sense of space with religious symbolism.
I see you have a different view . Good luck .
:coffee:

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