Dunning–Kruger effect

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
ieee23
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Re: Dunning–Kruger effect

Post by ieee23 » Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:29 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:13 am
A typical example is people who take to argue against monks eating meat. Saying;
- It is so obvious! I can't belive you do not get it!

While in reality their view is easily understood by anyone who not a complete imbecile and they are the one who don't comprehend the more complex position. Yet argue as if equally qualified.

Next time you take a sharp turn away from the topic being discussed could you give us a warning so we can get our seatbelts on? :)
Whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. - MN 19

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rightviewftw
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Re: Dunning–Kruger effect

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:09 pm

ieee23 wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:29 pm
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:13 am
A typical example is people who take to argue against monks eating meat. Saying;
- It is so obvious! I can't belive you do not get it!

While in reality their view is easily understood by anyone who not a complete imbecile and they are the one who don't comprehend the more complex position. Yet argue as if equally qualified.

Next time you take a sharp turn away from the topic being discussed could you give us a warning so we can get our seatbelts on? :)
Should have seen this one coming, let's just say this is hypotethical and there is the assumption that there is no wrong in eating meat.

I was going to list other examples as well but hestitated thinking that people might get provoked.
How to Destroy any addiction
How to Meditate: Satipatthana Mahasi
Медитация Сатипаттхана Випассана
How To Develop Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
Ven. Kutukurunde Nanananda's (Developing Metta)
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
Dhammatalks categorized by topic @ video.sirimangalo.org/
Ledi Sayadaw's Anapana Dipani (Samatha) @ ffmt.fr/articles/maitres/LediS/anapana-dipani.ledi-sayadaw.pdf
Parallel Dhammapada @ myweb.ncku.edu.tw/~lsn46/tipitaka/sutta/khuddaka/dhammapada/dhp-contrast-reading/dhp-contrast-reading-en/

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DNS
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Re: Dunning–Kruger effect

Post by DNS » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:26 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:09 pm
ieee23 wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:29 pm
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:13 am
A typical example is people who take to argue against monks eating meat. Saying;
- It is so obvious! I can't belive you do not get it!

While in reality their view is easily understood by anyone who not a complete imbecile and they are the one who don't comprehend the more complex position. Yet argue as if equally qualified.

Next time you take a sharp turn away from the topic being discussed could you give us a warning so we can get our seatbelts on? :)
Should have seen this one coming, let's just say this is hypotethical and there is the assumption that there is no wrong in eating meat.

I was going to list other examples as well but hestitated thinking that people might get provoked.
Which just goes to show that DKE can be used as a weapon on any discussion forum, as Sam Vara noted. A vegan-activist could say it is the meat eaters' position that has illusory superiority of intelligence, that they can't see the most basic understanding of cause and effect, supply and demand, etc; meanwhile the omnivores say that it is the vegans who can't see that the food is not impure and that there is no causality, etc, etc., both accusing the opposing side of having an illusory notion of superior intelligence.

All the more reason, I don't believe DKE should be used on discussion forums as it can be a weapon and mistakenly used, at that.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Dunning–Kruger effect

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:39 pm

I do not want this to derail, can delete that post if it is too offensive.

If pursuit of the truth is the goal then there is no need to compete and weaponize anything. If the goal is to get along then yes one will need to censor.

Wow this is hard to talk abou, better keep it as general as possible i guess.
How to Destroy any addiction
How to Meditate: Satipatthana Mahasi
Медитация Сатипаттхана Випассана
How To Develop Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
Ven. Kutukurunde Nanananda's (Developing Metta)
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
Dhammatalks categorized by topic @ video.sirimangalo.org/
Ledi Sayadaw's Anapana Dipani (Samatha) @ ffmt.fr/articles/maitres/LediS/anapana-dipani.ledi-sayadaw.pdf
Parallel Dhammapada @ myweb.ncku.edu.tw/~lsn46/tipitaka/sutta/khuddaka/dhammapada/dhp-contrast-reading/dhp-contrast-reading-en/

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binocular
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Re: Dunning–Kruger effect

Post by binocular » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:40 pm

DNS wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:26 pm
Which just goes to show that DKE can be used as a weapon on any discussion forum, as Sam Vara noted. A vegan-activist could say it is the meat eaters' position that has illusory superiority of intelligence, that they can't see the most basic understanding of cause and effect, supply and demand, etc; meanwhile the omnivores say that it is the vegans who can't see that the food is not impure and that there is no causality, etc, etc., both accusing the opposing side of having an illusory notion of superior intelligence.

All the more reason, I don't believe DKE should be used on discussion forums as it can be a weapon and mistakenly used, at that.
People who actually have an illusory sense of superiority can't see that it is illusory. Such people cannot refrain from acting on it (in line with the DKE). It's not like people who actually have such illusory superiority can refrain from exhibiting it; their conviction in their superiority prevents them from exhibiting it (even though they may temporarily refrain from exhibiting in, in the name of mercy, pity, tolerance, compassion).

I think it's a good idea to invoke an internet discussion principle similar to Goodwin's Law: "A discussion becomes untenable as soon as one or more parties involved exhibit the Dunning-Krüger Effect."

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