Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

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ieee23
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by ieee23 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:53 am

alan wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:05 am
Tibetan tradition is not really Buddhism. Your opinion?
Edit: My first post had a wrong link. Sorry about that!

https://dharma-documentaries.net/lama-osel-hita
It isn't my cup of tea, but life is short. I would rather spend my time meditating and being in nice mental states than criticizing what others do.
Whatever a bhikkhu frequently thinks and ponders upon, that will become the inclination of his mind. - MN 19

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:57 am

The Golden Child - Trailer




:namaste:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/

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aflatun
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by aflatun » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:50 am

Upeksha wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:05 pm
There sure are. As I mentioned in an earlier post, all of them were written in the 19th century when there was virtually no genuine knowledge of Tibetan Buddhism. The very word "Lamaism" is rooted in that period of almost total ignorance. To sit here on a Buddhist forum in the 21st century and perpetrate that level of ignorance is pretty shameful.
Upeksha wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:22 am
Unfriendly sectarian states: "You too should be an unfriendly sectarian."

No thanks, I love and admire all forms of Buddhism. I have learned from all, and I will continue to learn from all. And when I take refuge in the triple gem, I see nothing that states I ought to choose one team based on the language of its scriptures, whilst disparaging the other team. In fact, I see much that explicitly disavows such attitudes.
Well said, me too, and I agree on all points

My vote: Vajrayana is Buddhism, as is its Tibetan form. Sure there are some things there that I take issue with, but I find those everywhere, most of all in the mirror.
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53

"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.

That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."

Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16

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manas
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by manas » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:48 am

Interviewer: "Are you happy being a monk?"
Lama Osel: (pause...) "Better not...answer this question, please. I don't lie."
Interviewer: "Do you think you'll always be a monk?"
Lama Osel: "I hope so."

Whether or not he really is the incarnation of Lama Yeshe, he's honest and likeable.
:anjali:
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

Disciple
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Disciple » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:52 pm

Upeksha wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:22 am
Disciple wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:08 pm
Upeksha wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:05 pm


There sure are. As I mentioned in an earlier post, all of them were written in the 19th century when there was virtually no genuine knowledge of Tibetan Buddhism. The very word "Lamaism" is rooted in that period of almost total ignorance. To sit here on a Buddhist forum in the 21st century and perpetrate that level of ignorance is pretty shameful.
I think you might be better off on dharmawheel.
Unfriendly sectarian states: "You too should be an unfriendly sectarian."

No thanks, I love and admire all forms of Buddhism. I have learned from all, and I will continue to learn from all. And when I take refuge in the triple gem, I see nothing that states I ought to choose one team based on the language of its scriptures, whilst disparaging the other team. In fact, I see much that explicitly disavows such attitudes.
I take those comments back actually. Both Mahayana and Vajrayana has produced many great and respectable teachers and I too can probably learn a lot from them. Apologies if I offended anyone.

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manas
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by manas » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:33 pm

grigoris wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:39 am
alan wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:05 am
Tibetan tradition is not really Buddhism. Your opinion?
Edit: My first post had a wrong link. Sorry about that!

https://dharma-documentaries.net/lama-osel-hita
Not only has that child in the video grown up, he has also become a top-notch Buddhist teacher.
Indeed he has. In the talk below, he begins with quite simple concepts, then gradually leads the listener into the topic of 'self-cherishing'...an inspiring dhamma talk, afaic.
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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Aloka
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Aloka » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:35 pm

Lucas Oliveira wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:57 am
The Golden Child - Trailer
"The Golden Child" is a fantasy adventure comedy film which was made in the 1980's.

The Golden Child is a 1986 American fantasy comedy film directed by Michael Ritchie and starring Eddie Murphy as Chandler Jarrell, who is informed that he is "The Chosen One" and is destined to save "The Golden Child", the savior of all humankind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Child

.

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:57 am

I know it's a movie.

but the story of the movie has everything to do with this topic

:anjali:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/

Upeksha
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Upeksha » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:59 am

Disciple wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:52 pm
Upeksha wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:22 am
Disciple wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:08 pm

I think you might be better off on dharmawheel.
Unfriendly sectarian states: "You too should be an unfriendly sectarian."

No thanks, I love and admire all forms of Buddhism. I have learned from all, and I will continue to learn from all. And when I take refuge in the triple gem, I see nothing that states I ought to choose one team based on the language of its scriptures, whilst disparaging the other team. In fact, I see much that explicitly disavows such attitudes.
I take those comments back actually. Both Mahayana and Vajrayana has produced many great and respectable teachers and I too can probably learn a lot from them. Apologies if I offended anyone.
You show your true class here, Disciple.

I'm personally not at all offended. Funnily enough, before a long internet hiatus, I used to also post on Dharma Wheel, in which I spent a fair amount of time arguing against pitiful statements equating Theravada with 'Hinayana'.

Upeksha
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Upeksha » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:12 am

With respect to the OP, two things to consider:

1. It's widely acknowledged basically everywhere you look within Tibetan Buddhism that the tulku system has been massively politicized for centuries, and has been deeply corrupted in the name of institutional preservation, property ownership etc. It would be hard to find anyone who seriously denies this. But, it does not follow that because of that problem, Tibetan Buddhism is not Buddhism. That's like saying: because there has been a civil war in Sri Lanka, Sinhalese Buddhism is not Theravada. A straight up inferential error.

2. The fact that part of what Buddhism espouses is rebirth, means that there is nothing doctrinally or metaphysically contradictory about a Spanish boy being the rebirth of a Tibetan lama. The critique of that kind of thing truly emerges itself from something which is not Buddhist: namely, the denial of the possibility of rebirth. So again, the OP suffers from a rather terminal contradiction - the only way it could be affirmed would be to adopt a position which is not Buddhist!

Whether or not he is actually the rebirth - well, that's a separate question. If you have the attainment to see truly, good. I don't. So who am I to say?

Justsit
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Justsit » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:44 am

Aloka wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:35 pm
The Golden Child is a 1986 American fantasy comedy film directed by Michael Ritchie and starring Eddie Murphy as Chandler Jarrell, who is informed that he is "The Chosen One" and is destined to save "The Golden Child", the savior of all humankind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Child
"Kundun" tells the story of the early life of the 14th (current) Dalai Lama. As such, it's a bit more realistic; not a comedy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFm8oP9c9Hs

alan
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by alan » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:04 am

Upeksha: Both points you try to make are incorrect. You are inferring things that are not reasonable.
The example about the war in Sri Lanka, for instance, has no logic

alan
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by alan » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:13 am

Aslo, I did not deny rebirth. But nowhere did the Buddha say he could determine past lives with anything other than basic needs. And nowhere did he say there is a way to find a specific rebirth.
You should look up the term "inferential error" before accusing me.

Saengnapha
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Saengnapha » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:39 am

Almost 30 years ago, I met and befriended a very high ranking lama who shall remain nameless. He was head of over 400 monasteries. One night in Bangkok, over dinner with some friends, I asked him about the tulku thing, his in particular. He told me that in his case, they simply made a mistake! He didn't feel any of it was true for him, but he did have an overwhelming loyalty to those who depended on him. He was a curious case of dichotomy, self-indulgent, and devoted to his role as a leader.

Upeksha
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Upeksha » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:31 am

alan wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:04 am
Upeksha: Both points you try to make are incorrect. You are inferring things that are not reasonable.
The example about the war in Sri Lanka, for instance, has no logic
I am precisely trying to demonstrate that - I actually wrote: "a straight up inferential error"!

And my point is simply that the OP proposition: "Child lama equals Tibetan Buddhism is not Buddhist" is similarly devoid of logical coherency.

Please read my posts more carefully.

Upeksha
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Upeksha » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:35 am

alan wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:13 am
Aslo, I did not deny rebirth. But nowhere did the Buddha say he could determine past lives with anything other than basic needs. And nowhere did he say there is a way to find a specific rebirth.
You should look up the term "inferential error" before accusing me.
Well, you've been asked repeatedly on this thread (not by me) to offer some kind of argument for your key assertion. In the complete absence of this, one can only take your initial statement on face value - and it is indeed logically incoherent.

If you want to take the time to make a more considered case, I'm happy and open to hear you out.

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Aloka
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Aloka » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:21 am

Justsit wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:44 am
Aloka wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:35 pm
The Golden Child is a 1986 American fantasy comedy film directed by Michael Ritchie and starring Eddie Murphy as Chandler Jarrell, who is informed that he is "The Chosen One" and is destined to save "The Golden Child", the savior of all humankind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Child
"Kundun" tells the story of the early life of the 14th (current) Dalai Lama. As such, it's a bit more realistic; not a comedy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFm8oP9c9Hs
I used to be involved with Tibetan Buddhism myself and saw that movie years ago.

I've also read "The Story of Tibet - conversations with the Dalai Lama" by Thomas Laird. It tells, amongst other things, about the Gelugpa sect acquiring political and military power and their leaders (the Dalai lamas) becoming rulers of Tibet.

.

Disciple
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Disciple » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:50 pm

Aloka wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:21 am

I used to be involved with Tibetan Buddhism myself and saw that movie years ago.

I've also read "The Story of Tibet - conversations with the Dalai Lama" by Thomas Laird. It tells, amongst other things, about the Gelugpa sect acquiring political and military power and their leaders (the Dalai lamas) becoming rulers of Tibet.

.
What made you leave tibetan buddhism?

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Aloka
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Aloka » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:57 pm

Disciple wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:50 pm

What made you leave tibetan buddhism?
Its personal.....and I also became more interested in reading the suttas and in the teachings of the lineage of Ajahn Chah.


:anjali:

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manas
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by manas » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:36 pm

Disciple wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:08 pm
Upeksha wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:05 pm
Disciple wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:47 pm

There are much more profound critiques out there regarding Lamaism but thank you.
There sure are. As I mentioned in an earlier post, all of them were written in the 19th century when there was virtually no genuine knowledge of Tibetan Buddhism. The very word "Lamaism" is rooted in that period of almost total ignorance. To sit here on a Buddhist forum in the 21st century and perpetrate that level of ignorance is pretty shameful.
I think you might be better off on dharmawheel.
I don't see why someone can't participate in both Forums at once. Sectarianism gives me spiritual indigestion. I'm more interested in improving myself, than in clinging to the notion that "Only this Path is correct, all others are false (or misleading, incomplete, distorted etc). I'm leaning more nowadays, towards "What when I do it, will be for my long term welfare and happiness?", and if a Tibetan Monk or Lama can help with that, so be it. There are good practitioners in both Theravada and Tibatan Buddhism. A case in point, is this truly inspiring Dharma talk by the late Lama Yeshe. This is powerful, vibrant, alive. Well worth a listen.
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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