Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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Grigoris
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Grigoris » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:05 pm

Isn't it incredible how the least informed always have the strongest opinions? Never ceases to amaze me!

And the saddest bit is that their ignorance does not stretch only to other traditions, but to their own too!

It is truly sad.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Lucas Oliveira » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:42 pm

grigoris wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:05 pm
Isn't it incredible how the least informed always have the strongest opinions? Never ceases to amaze me!

And the saddest bit is that their ignorance does not stretch only to other traditions, but to their own too!

It is truly sad.
Welcome Grigoris!

:anjali:
I participate in this forum using Google Translator. http://translate.google.com.br

http://www.acessoaoinsight.net/

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mikenz66
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:53 am

ToVincent wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:50 pm
That's Buddhism.
The rest is not.
Period.
. :jawdrop:
No, that's your definition. Please abide by the rules of the forum.

Reasoned criticism is fine. Throwing around insults is not.

:heart:
Mike

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Grigoris
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Grigoris » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:44 am

Not having an intelligent or logical response to the points being made, the ignorant turn immediately to sectarianism, blissfully unaware of the fact that it is not traditions but sectarian posturing that lead to schisms.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:12 am

Greetings,
grigoris wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:44 am
Not having an intelligent or logical response to the points being made, the ignorant turn immediately to sectarianism, blissfully unaware of the fact that it is not traditions but sectarian posturing that lead to schisms.
OK, that's enough meta-discussion, thank you.

:focus:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by ToVincent » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:43 am

... It is not traditions but sectarian posturing that lead to schisms.


.

Not at all.
It is adding to the original message that leads to schism.
Like this Bon's reincarnated child lama stuff.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bon-Tibetan-religion
.
If refferring to the Encyclopedia Britannica is a lack of logical or intelligent response; then what can be ?
.
.
Last edited by retrofuturist on Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: False attribution of quote removed
Some working for the Mara's world; some for the Brahma's world; some for the Unborn.
.
In this world with its ..., māras, ... in this population with its ascetics.... (AN 5.30).
------
We are all possessed - more or less.
------
And what, bhikkhu, is inward rottenness? Here someone is immoral, one of evil character, of impure and suspect behaviour, secretive in his acts, no ascetic though claiming to be one, not a celibate though claiming to be one, inwardly rotten, corrupt, depraved. This is called inward rottenness.”
SN 35.241
------
https://justpaste.it/j5o4

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Grigoris
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Grigoris » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:04 pm

ToVincent wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:43 am
Not at all.
It is adding to the original message that leads to schism.
Like this Bon's reincarnated child lama stuff.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bon-Tibetan-religion
.
If refferring to the Encyclopedia Britannica is a lack of logical or intelligent response; then what can be ?
.
.
The article you link to is a piece of rubbish (to put it lightly), it adds nothing intelligent to the discussion.

If you actually want to learn about Bon, in order to have an intelligent and informed opinion, I recommend you start off with something REALLY simple like the wikipedia page on Bon.

If you want to get adventurous I thoroughly recommend Norbu, Namkhai 1995. Drung, Deu and Bön: Narrations, Symbolic languages and the Bön tradition in ancient Tibet. Namkhai Norbu is an amazing BUDDIST Dzogchen teacher and a scholar with a professorship at Naples University, Italy.

If you want something lighter then you can try Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche (2002), Healing with Form, Energy, and Light. Ithaca, New York: Snow Lion Publications.

I know you won't, but other people reading this thread, actually interested in learning something, will hopefully benefit from my time and energy.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

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Grigoris
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Grigoris » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:18 pm

And this attempt to purposefully confound Vajrayana Buddhism with Bon...

Bon regents persecuted Tibetan Buddhism (and vice versa) Bon was only accepted as a school of Tibetan Buddhism under the current Dalai Lama. Many Vajrayana Buddhist teachers are still highly suspect of the legitimacy of Bon as a Buddhist tradition. Vajrayana practices came directly from Indian Buddhist teachers, yes there were some practices co-opted from the Bon but they are practiced from a strictly Buddhist view. If you were to take offence at something Tibetan in origin it should be with the Jonangpa tradition. But even they were heavily persecuted by the Gelug hierarchy. Their monasteries were attacked, followers were killed and monastics were forcibly converted. Again: it is only under the current Dalai Lama that they have been recognised as a Buddhist tradition.
ye dhammā hetuppabhavā tesaṁ hetuṁ tathāgato āha,
tesaṃca yo nirodho - evaṁvādī mahāsamaṇo.

Of those phenomena which arise from causes:
Those causes have been taught by the Tathāgata,
And their cessation too - thus proclaims the Great Ascetic.

alan
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by alan » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:51 am

So. I've learned at least one thing from this: There is such a thing called called Bon.
But, I don't care. Because it seems to be completely ridiculous.
Just like the idea that there could be a child lama.

There could not be a Child Lama, right?
In the Suttas, nothing like that was ever said.

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DNS
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by DNS » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:01 am

alan wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:51 am
There could not be a Child Lama, right?
In the Suttas, nothing like that was ever said.
In Theravada, there is no tulku system where elder monks seek out the rebirth of a famous or semi-famous monk. During the time of the Buddha there were a few very young monks who attained enlightenment. One of them was Sopaka who was only 7 years old, but that was very rare.

alan
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by alan » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:06 am

Never heard of that one. Where is it in the Suttas?

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DNS
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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by DNS » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:18 am

alan wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:06 am
Never heard of that one. Where is it in the Suttas?
In the Khuddakapatha, Sutta Nipata and Theragatha. Here is a passage from Theragatha (sorry couldn't find it in English, sprechen sie deutsch?)

https://suttacentral.net/thag7.4/de/sass

The last part mentions taking ordination at age 7 and wearing the last body.

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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by alan » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:30 am

That link did not work. I'll try it again tomorrow morning.

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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by DNS » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:42 pm

alan wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:30 am
That link did not work. I'll try it again tomorrow morning.
It was in German. Here is the google translate rendering to English:

Saw him in the terrace shade,
the highest, go up and down,
I slowly went to him,
greeted him, the highest man.

"Cover my robe first,
and I fold my hands under her,
Will I follow the flawless,
the highest of all living beings. "

Since he asked questions,
the questioner, knowing, -
and fearless, whole and without fear
she told Master Me.

And about these questions answer
pleased was the Tathāgato,
looked at his bhikkhu crowd,
said this meaning to himself:

"How good for Magadhā, Angāna,
where he enjoys everything easily:
the robe and the beggar's walk,
keep and camp seat,
getting up and going right,
how good for her "-so he said.

"Sopāka, today you are with me,
to see me, approached-
This step, Sopāka, just
I want you to be ordained. "

Was seven years after birth,
when I took the ordination,
From now on, wear my last body.
Oh, this Dhamma Core Law!

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Re: Child Lama. I think it is ridiculous.

Post by Disciple » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:28 am

alan wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:51 am
So. I've learned at least one thing from this: There is such a thing called called Bon.
But, I don't care. Because it seems to be completely ridiculous.
Just like the idea that there could be a child lama.

There could not be a Child Lama, right?
In the Suttas, nothing like that was ever said.
Tibetan invention.

:coffee:

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