Survivalism and Dhamma

A place to discuss casual topics amongst spiritual friends.
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Alīno
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Survivalism and Dhamma

Post by Alīno »

Hello dear friends!

I used to be a "prepper"/survivalist with some mounth of food autonomy/water/medecine/and even arms and ammo/silver coins etc...

This mentality is very close to the Dhamma about anicca aspect of things, but in the srict opposition about the anatta...
While Dhamma teach how to liberate yourself from all what is anicca and end the endless round of existance - rooted on confidence and lack of fear of death.
Survivalism tell you that instead all is impermanent you should be ready to survive, to protect your life and those of your relatives by being independant from the impermanent system in food,water,medecine, self protection (arms) etc by accumulation of all sort of things, stuff, skills etc... - rooted on fear of death.

I dont know if there is some "enlightened preppers" how do you mix this both ways of life?

Because if we observe this world with no more oil and resources to maintain our systhem for long much (20years max?), extinction of biomass and all sort of living beings, climat deregulation, overpopulation etc.. It is difficult to stay like this as all is OK and as our social/ecinomic/political/moral system was eternal...

What do you think about mixing Dhamma practice and prepper mode of life? It is mixable? Are you are already a prepper? How do you do? etc

:juggling: :anjali: :guns: :roll:
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...
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Sam Vara
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Re: Survivalism and Dhamma

Post by Sam Vara »

I'm not a "prepper", so please forgive me for a purely facetious answer.

I think the best way for a Buddhist "prepper" to protect themselves against future disasters is to accumulate merit, and develop wisdom.
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Alīno
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Re: Survivalism and Dhamma

Post by Alīno »

Sam Vara wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:04 am I'm not a "prepper", so please forgive me for a purely facetious answer.

I think the best way for a Buddhist "prepper" to protect themselves against future disasters is to accumulate merit, and develop wisdom.
Exactly :) We are some kind of kammic preppers )

Actualy i thought about : is it will be a "kammic solution" to a buddhist prepper not seeking (volition) for one's own and relative survive but for others too... For exeple when the system will go down, neighboor peoples who have no any preparation and autonomy can come to you and get some food for their family survive... But there is also many bad peoples who will come to you and take all and even kill you why not... So its not easy to mixing.
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...
binocular
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Re: Survivalism and Dhamma

Post by binocular »

It's not possible to actually know what it will be like when SHTF, one can only speculate.
/.../
The fact is, you have absolutely NO idea what’s going to happen in the next calamity that you will refer to as when SHTF. None. All you have is a lot of possibilities. Even if you’re right, do you think there’s only one bad thing that will happen to you in your life that you should plan for? What’s worse is the people out there who boo-hoo other people’s plans because they’re so myopic that they can’t consider any other possibility.

The best you can do is look at the wide spectrum of possible scenarios and plan accordingly.

These people are falling into what I was talking bout in previous articles such as The dangers of planning for worst-case scenarios – they’re looking at worst-case and completely forgetting the fact that there are many, many other dangers out there that are MUCH more likely to happen than worst-case. Because they’re so laser-focused on one particular threat, their plans won’t support being ready for other threats.

We had the same thing happen in Afghanistan. Commanders higher up that had zero real trigger time made the brilliant decision to make huge restrictions on our Rules of Engagement (ROE) because they were afraid of the political backlash from Karzai and the secondary effects of the current ROE causing an increase in Coalition casualties. The result? Our casualties quickly doubled. Instead of coming up with a plan that would protect Soldiers if there were a huge backlash as well as in every-day battles, they chose a singular path that ignored the more direct threat.

Now don’t get me wrong, there is some utility to being ready for a worst-case scenario – that’s why we like to play “What would you do in a Zombie Apocalypse” so much in the Army. The problem is that you can’t plan for worst-case at the expense of most likely. That would be like walking the 5 miles to work every day because you’re afraid you might get a flat tire.
/.../
So what will happen after SHTF? Who knows? Just don’t presume that you know and then get tunnel vision on that one scenario while ignoring the real threats that you could face between now and that day – or the very real fact that you just might be wrong. Even if you do turn out to be eventually right, if you don’t plan accordingly, you won’t be prepared for things that could happen in the meantime.
/.../

http://www.thedailysheeple.com/you-dont ... -do_082014
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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Alīno
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Re: Survivalism and Dhamma

Post by Alīno »

binocular wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:17 am It's not possible to actually know what it will be like when SHTF, one can only speculate.
Its true that one never know what exactly will heppen in the future :) But you can consider possibilities in your particular case: car accident, loose job, terrorist attack, tsunami, hurricane, lack of water, wood fire, earth quake etc and if you live near a nuclear electric central - nuclear solutions ...;)
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...
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TamHanhHi
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Re: Survivalism and Dhamma

Post by TamHanhHi »

This reminds me of one of the suttas that essentially states the best protection is an internal protection. A pure mind and blameless virtue. If you have that, then even if your life is endangered, your mind will be safe. If you don't have it, then all the worldly preparations you can gather (like money, food, weapons, an army) won't make a difference.

This body will die whether by the catastrophic collapse of society or by old age, so maybe it's better to be a kammic prepper than to accumulate things that are inconstant and must ultimately be left behind.
"Just as a large banyan tree, on level ground where four roads meet, is a haven for the birds all around, even so a lay person of conviction is a haven for many people: monks, nuns, male lay followers, & female lay followers."AN 5.38
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robertk
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Re: Survivalism and Dhamma

Post by robertk »

They go to many a refuge,
to mountains, forests,
parks, trees, and shrines:
people threatened with danger.
That's not the secure refuge,
that's not the highest refuge,
that's not the refuge,
having gone to which,
you gain release
from all suffering and stress.

But when, having gone for refuge
to the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha,
you see with right discernment
the four Noble Truths —
stress,
the cause of stress,
the transcending of stress,
and the Noble Eightfold Path,
the way to the stilling of stress:
That's the secure refuge,
that, the highest refuge,
that is the refuge,
having gone to which,
you gain release
from all suffering and stress.
— Dhammapada, 188-192
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Alīno
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Re: Survivalism and Dhamma

Post by Alīno »

:anjali:
Survival sphere is actualy full of suffering... You have fear of collaps so you prepare yourself, you get many things, mental or physical, then you get affraid to lose it all so mind is full of defilments about it and its go on like this... suffering brings more suffering... Thants why you cant consider only one of three characterestics anicca dukkha or anatta without consider others too interconected between each other ;)
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...
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bodom
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Re: Survivalism and Dhamma

Post by bodom »

robertk wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:13 pm They go to many a refuge,
to mountains, forests,
parks, trees, and shrines:
people threatened with danger.
That's not the secure refuge,
that's not the highest refuge,
that's not the refuge,
having gone to which,
you gain release
from all suffering and stress.

But when, having gone for refuge
to the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha,
you see with right discernment
the four Noble Truths —
stress,
the cause of stress,
the transcending of stress,
and the Noble Eightfold Path,
the way to the stilling of stress:
That's the secure refuge,
that, the highest refuge,
that is the refuge,
having gone to which,
you gain release
from all suffering and stress.
— Dhammapada, 188-192
Spot on Robert.

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
dharmacorps
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Re: Survivalism and Dhamma

Post by dharmacorps »

After Hurricane Katrina, I realized my assumption that the government would swoop in quickly to help in a mass disaster was wrong. I live in the SF Bay area, so I store supplies for an earthquake or some other event. Nothing big, just enough to fill part of a closet. That's the extent of my prepping, on a non-spiritual level :anjali:
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BasementBuddhist
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Re: Survivalism and Dhamma

Post by BasementBuddhist »

It's all about why you are prepping;

If you are worried about yourself and preventing death, I think that is definitely counter to Buddhist principals. If you are doing it for others to ease their fears of the future then I think that is compassion and it is perfectly within the realm of buddhism. Obviously the best thing would be to encourage them to develop equanimity, but it is what it is.
thepea
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Re: Survivalism and Dhamma

Post by thepea »

BasementBuddhist wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:59 pm It's all about why you are prepping;

If you are worried about yourself and preventing death, I think that is definitely counter to Buddhist principals. If you are doing it for others to ease their fears of the future then I think that is compassion and it is perfectly within the realm of buddhism. Obviously the best thing would be to encourage them to develop equanimity, but it is what it is.
Good thing I’m not Buddhist then.
I eat everyday to prevent death, I even do this crazy thing called shopping, where I go out and collect food to eat in the future. Non buddhists store this food in a mechanical cold box so it won’t spoil.
Crazy huh!!
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Kim OHara
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Re: Survivalism and Dhamma

Post by Kim OHara »

dharmacorps wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:24 pm After Hurricane Katrina, I realized my assumption that the government would swoop in quickly to help in a mass disaster was wrong. I live in the SF Bay area, so I store supplies for an earthquake or some other event. Nothing big, just enough to fill part of a closet. That's the extent of my prepping, on a non-spiritual level :anjali:
:thumbsup:
That's about the right level of preparation. Cover 90% of the anticipated needs of an event that's got a 10% chance of happening, or something like that.
In the same way we keep our food cupboard fairly full, and keep a few batteries and a gas camp-stove around the house, in case of cyclones. We get them ... but they are wildly unpredictable. Most of them :thinking: don't do a lot of damage but we quite often lose power for a few days, and roads can be flooded. So - boy scout stuff. :tongue:

:namaste:
Kim
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Alīno
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Re: Survivalism and Dhamma

Post by Alīno »

BasementBuddhist wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:59 pm It's all about why you are prepping;

If you are worried about yourself and preventing death, I think that is definitely counter to Buddhist principals. If you are doing it for others to ease their fears of the future then I think that is compassion and it is perfectly within the realm of buddhism. Obviously the best thing would be to encourage them to develop equanimity, but it is what it is.
You know i have this dilema in mind... I want to ordain because i feel dukkha in lay life and peace when keep discipline hight. But i feel that actual world system will collaps soon because there is all factors to it, and no one in my family prepare it self. So i dont know what to do, go forth and feel happy on my own, or get a house live alone practice alone but also trying to prepare some kind of nest for my mother and brother if things were get out of control or job loss or other... But i know that this prepper-mind-set make your mind feel fear, attachment, accumulation of things so it will be bad for my practice...
Ajahn Nanadassano (before ordaining) : Venerable Ajahn, what is the bigest error that buddhist do in their practice?
Ajahn Jayasaro : They stop practicing ...
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seeker242
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Re: Survivalism and Dhamma

Post by seeker242 »

thepea wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:51 am
BasementBuddhist wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:59 pm It's all about why you are prepping;

If you are worried
Good thing I’m not Buddhist then.
I eat everyday to prevent death, I even do this crazy thing called shopping, where I go out and collect food to eat in the future. Non buddhists store this food in a mechanical cold box so it won’t spoil.
Crazy huh!!
There's a big difference between eating, shopping and worrying.
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