Online games addiction

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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oncereturner
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Online games addiction

Post by oncereturner » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:08 pm

I'm addicted to online games for some years. Previously I played offline computer games for 20 years. First in dos, then in windows. Now I think these violent games are unwholesome.

What is your opinion? :thanks:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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Crazy cloud
Posts: 489
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Re: Online games addiction

Post by Crazy cloud » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:21 pm

The healing can begin!

:smile:
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

Virgo
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Re: Online games addiction

Post by Virgo » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:23 pm

They can be unwholesome. But a layperson needs to blow off steam. There are many worse ways to do so.

We have pressures of a job or career, taking care of a house, many duties, etc.

Kevin

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rightviewftw
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Re: Online games addiction

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:40 pm

I used to play a lot back in the day, i think it brings out the worst in people. Made me unhappy a lot, if i did not get good at the game then it was a bad feel for sucking at the game, if i got good i just made others feel bad by owning people mostly outclassed due to not playin 10+ hours a day. I was training to get rank in what was good for nothing and seeking pleasure in making others feel bad. There is no honor in becoming good at the games imo and it is so obviously greed and anger based. One word "nerdrage", that is quite ugly phenomena.

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oncereturner
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Location: Hungary

Re: Online games addiction

Post by oncereturner » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:09 pm

rightviewftw wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:40 pm
I used to play a lot back in the day, i think it brings out the worst in people. Made me unhappy a lot, if i did not get good at the game then it was a bad feel for sucking at the game, if i got good i just made others feel bad by owning people mostly outclassed due to not playin 10+ hours a day. I was training to get rank in what was good for nothing and seeking pleasure in making others feel bad. There is no honor in becoming good at the games imo and it is so obviously greed and anger based. One word "nerdrage", that is quite ugly phenomena.
:goodpost:

:computerproblem:

:thanks:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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Crazy cloud
Posts: 489
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Re: Online games addiction

Post by Crazy cloud » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:12 pm

Virgo wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:23 pm
They can be unwholesome. But a layperson needs to blow off steam. There are many worse ways to do so.

We have pressures of a job or career, taking care of a house, many duties, etc.

Kevin
Doesn't that kind of "steamin off"-activity drive up one's inner temperature, the opposite of what the teaching is all about, ending of stress?

And isn't it so that when the temperature gets high, one is more vulnerable to make mistakes (unwholesome acts)?
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

dharmacorps
Posts: 559
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Re: Online games addiction

Post by dharmacorps » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:21 pm

A few years ago I was playing a lot of shooter games. I dropped it because I could feel it was encouraging feelings of aggression. It isn't conducive to peace of mind, at least those kinds of games. I could see others being fine though.

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Online games addiction

Post by Crazy cloud » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:25 pm

I mostly see fine people around me, but I know that all of them are deranged, and people who indulge in violent games i regard as possible "ticking bombs" ..
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

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rightviewftw
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Re: Online games addiction

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:26 pm

They can be unwholesome. But a layperson needs to blow off steam. There are many worse ways to do so.
Just because there are worse ways to go about it does not make it good, it makes it a lesser evil at best on that ground alone. I will say that it is not a way to blow off steam but a way to cultivate delusion, greed and anger. It is empty, blowing off steam does not apply.
"Suppose a dog, overcome with weakness & hunger, were to come across a slaughterhouse, and there a dexterous butcher or butcher's apprentice were to fling him a chain of bones — thoroughly scraped, without any flesh, smeared with blood. What do you think: Would the dog, gnawing on that chain of bones — thoroughly scraped, without any flesh, smeared with blood — appease its weakness & hunger?"

"No, lord. And why is that? Because the chain of bones is thoroughly scraped, without any flesh, & smeared with blood. The dog would get nothing but its share of weariness & vexation."

"In the same way, householder, a disciple of the noble ones considers this point: 'The Blessed One has compared sensuality to a chain of bones, of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks.' Seeing this with right discernment, as it actually is, then avoiding the equanimity coming from multiplicity, dependent on multiplicity, he develops the equanimity coming from singleness, dependent on singleness,[1] where sustenance/clinging for the baits of the world ceases without trace.
It is joy derived and based on one's own delusional interpretation of sense-data is what is meant (imho:), based on fundamentally deluded interpretation of Everything, oneself and the enviroment along with the system in which All gains footing.

If seeing is just seeing, then one does not conceptualize/conceive of it's particulars so there can arise no joy based on multitude of concepts like a computer, game, playing but there will arise wholesome states based on singleness and non-objectification.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Virgo
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Re: Online games addiction

Post by Virgo » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:31 pm

Crazy cloud wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:12 pm
Virgo wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:23 pm
They can be unwholesome. But a layperson needs to blow off steam. There are many worse ways to do so.

We have pressures of a job or career, taking care of a house, many duties, etc.

Kevin
Doesn't that kind of "steamin off"-activity drive up one's inner temperature, the opposite of what the teaching is all about, ending of stress?

And isn't it so that when the temperature gets high, one is more vulnerable to make mistakes (unwholesome acts)?
My point is that laypeople are going to engage in some hobbies, which is to be expected in lay-life, and that some hobbies are better than others. A lay person has a job, possibly a high-pressure career, and all other types of responsibilities. In order to keep a balanced state of mind they need to relax a little bit. Maybe their principle hobby is canoeing, or reading, or playing chess. These things are also nothing more than engaging your desire and ultimately inflaming it with sense pleasures, however, one must do something to relax. Video gameing is no different than these other hobbies.

A monk has a lifestyle set up where they do not have to worry about any such responsibilities, nor think too much about where their next meal will come from (hopefully not have to anyway). There is less stress and their lifestyle allows them to practice meditation and have a vital sense of pleasure that way. A layperson can also practice meditation, but often they need to de-stress a bit first. Having a peaceful hobby is far better than having a terrible one such as gambling, etc

Laypeople should also plan to do intensive meditation retreats when they can, where they follow 8 precepts and meditate intently, relenquishing desires like video games at those times.

Kevin

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rightviewftw
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Re: Online games addiction

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:47 pm

Virgo wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:31 pm
These things are also nothing more than engaging your desire and ultimately inflaming it with sense pleasures, however, one must do something to relax.
I will use some non-dhamma concepts loosely to make my point, this is not exactly how it works and is simplified to make a point.

Consider this;

A person gets upset, stress chemicals flood his brain almost instantly.

Thus thinking arises; "What if i were to seek a pleasurable state, what pleasurable state could i easily attain?"
Here mind conceives of some State that is perceived as Non-Stressful and Pleasurable. Let's say video game comes to mind.

Instantly the brain is flooded with more stressful chemicals this time chemicals meant to motivate an organism to seek out what he is lacking, this infatuates the mind. Now person in a state of lacking, stressed seeks it out as if having Carrot in front of a donkey, the fool goes wherever he sees the Carrot.

So he attains his video game and starts to play, at this point he experiences Satisfaction as in Reward for Attainment, he is not even experiencing the pleasure from the Game but is actually being rewarded for Attaining whatever it is that he perceived as a worthy attainment.

This he does not reflect upon, he just thinks "i love this game, it makes me so happy",

Reflecting thus, that is the wrong reflection there and it further strengthens his bonds.

There is no worth or happiness in any of these sensual states, it is all based on this kind of substanceless reasoning;
  • "pleasure is good, good states are pleasurable therefore they are good to attain
    "if X is good, then Not-X is bad, therefore i need X to be happy
This happens on a moment to moment basis and of course the game in itself is not satisfying at all, so a person gets bored eventually and thinks that there is something wrong with the game and starts looking for alternative states that are more rewarding. So the game only exists as a conception of the Intellect based on abstraction of the Sense-Data. It is substanceless and has no intrensic benefit other than being a lesser suffering.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Online games addiction

Post by Crazy cloud » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:15 pm

Virgo wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:31 pm
Crazy cloud wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:12 pm
Virgo wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:23 pm
They can be unwholesome. But a layperson needs to blow off steam. There are many worse ways to do so.

We have pressures of a job or career, taking care of a house, many duties, etc.

Kevin
Doesn't that kind of "steamin off"-activity drive up one's inner temperature, the opposite of what the teaching is all about, ending of stress?

And isn't it so that when the temperature gets high, one is more vulnerable to make mistakes (unwholesome acts)?
My point is that laypeople are going to engage in some hobbies, which is to be expected in lay-life, and that some hobbies are better than others. A lay person has a job, possibly a high-pressure career, and all other types of responsibilities. In order to keep a balanced state of mind they need to relax a little bit. Maybe their principle hobby is canoeing, or reading, or playing chess. These things are also nothing more than engaging your desire and ultimately inflaming it with sense pleasures, however, one must do something to relax. Video gameing is no different than these other hobbies.

A monk has a lifestyle set up where they do not have to worry about any such responsibilities, nor think too much about where their next meal will come from (hopefully not have to anyway). There is less stress and their lifestyle allows them to practice meditation and have a vital sense of pleasure that way. A layperson can also practice meditation, but often they need to de-stress a bit first. Having a peaceful hobby is far better than having a terrible one such as gambling, etc

Laypeople should also plan to do intensive meditation retreats when they can, where they follow 8 precepts and meditate intently, relenquishing desires like video games at those times.

Kevin
That is all fine by me. I am also living in the same world, and find no obstacle to practice while functioning in the same world. What I have learned is that practice when one define oneself a "Buddhist" tends to complicate things for many lay people ... I started practicing long before i choose the eight-fold path, and had nice progression in a secular setting/mindstate. It's all about managing to hold the tread, and not leave it at home while one driving oneself to hard.

Retreats are fine, but to me it often seems finest for those who are a bit addicted to "safe havens" like that.

And a monastery can easily become a hiding from the cruel world, where one pretend that this is noble. Why do you think so many runs off and disrobes (even after many years of practice) - could it be that they haven't achieved the main goal, which I gather must be to have a breakthrough to the first stage of enlightenment?

The teaching must be one's hobby, or else my guess is that it's a most likely to be a futile effort and one would be better off not to do it at all.

your way is for me to put the finger back in to open fire time and time again ...
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

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rightviewftw
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Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Online games addiction

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:29 pm

I do not think it is warranted to say that the practice will be futile but it is a stumbling block on the way and cultivates bad states.

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Online games addiction

Post by Crazy cloud » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:48 pm

Please consider all of it my personal opinions!

:)
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 1804
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Online games addiction

Post by rightviewftw » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:54 pm

Crazy cloud wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:48 pm
Please consider all of it my personal opinions!

:)
I think you made good points, just consider it a comment suggesting some possible consctructive criticism on my part. I am weary of discussion myself.
:anjali:
Last edited by rightviewftw on Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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