Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
Locked

If you had to kill in self defense or to save others would you?

Yes
19
54%
No
16
46%
 
Total votes: 35

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2761
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:44 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:39 am
ye show me in regards to those Sutta 1 person, 1 claim and i will leave the forum.
:hello: :popcorn:
The "Long" Discourses (Pali digha = "long") consists of 34 suttas, including the longest ones in the Canon. The subject matter of these suttas ranges widely, from colorful folkloric accounts of the beings inhabiting the deva worlds (DN 20) to down-to-earth practical meditation instructions (DN 22), and everything in between. Recent scholarship suggests that a distinguishing trait of the Digha Nikaya may be that it was "intended for the purpose of propaganda, to attract converts to the new religion *."

* Bhikkhu Bodhi, Connected Discourses of the Buddha (Somerville, Mass.: Wisdom Publications, 2000), p.31, referring to Joy Manné's "Categories of Sutta in the Pali Nikayas and Their Implications for Our Appreciation of the Buddhist Teaching and Literature," Journal of the Pali Text Society 15 (1990): 29-87.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .html#fn-1

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:46 am

Lol i doubt Venerable B. Bodhi would confirm... btw you are slandering him too now big time but what is slander to one who has not given up the taking of life...

Also coloring does not add validity to your statements nor do Smilies. I really dont mind reading so don't worry i will give your words appropriate attention.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2761
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:54 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:46 am
Lol i doubt Venerable B. Bodhi would confirm... btw you are slandering him too now big time but what is slander to one who has not given up the taking of life...
So you changed your mind & wish to not leave the forum :console: ? Below Bhikkhu Analayo, VBB's student, appears to allege MN 117 is dodgy.
Closer scrutiny of the discourse itself shows that some of the Pāli terms
used in the Mahācat­tārīsaka-sutta’s definition of supramundane right
intention, such as “fixing” (appanā) of the mind and “mental inclination”
(cetaso abhiniropa­nā), are not found in other discourses and belong to
the type of language used only in the Abhidharma and historically later
Pāli texts.

In fact, the terms employed to define the supramundane path-factors of
right intention, right speech, right action and right livelihood are precisely
the same as those used in the Vibhaṅga of the Pāli Abhidhammapiṭaka.
Notably, the Vibhaṅga uses these terms in its exposition of the path-factors
according to the specific method of the Abhidharma, diferent from the
terms the same work uses when it analyses these path-factors according
to the method of the discourses.12 That is, from the viewpoint of the
Vibhaṅga this type of terminology is distinctly Abhidharmic, differing
from the mode of exposition found in the discourses

https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg ... risaka.pdf

User avatar
Crazy cloud
Posts: 489
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 8:55 am

Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by Crazy cloud » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:55 am

The question is not worth finding answers to because it will be based on speculations, and therefore not dhamma.

So my answer will be that if and when, I hope the my sati will be sufficent for doing what is right.
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:56 am

so where is the fake claim?

This is in your own words
"appears to allege MN 117 is dodgy"
if you were to leave the forum if all those authors deny your representation of their position, id contact them. Confident?
dylanj wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:33 am
I am appalled anyone viewing themselves as a follower of the Buddha would question this.
I am actually at point where i am impressed so many would abstain i think it quite amazing actually. I would expect these kind of poll results in regards to "is fishing ok" almost, this is abstaining in self defense, quite awesome.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dylanj
Posts: 784
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:48 am
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by dylanj » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:39 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:56 am
dylanj wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:33 am
I am appalled anyone viewing themselves as a follower of the Buddha would question this.
I am actually at point where i am impressed so many would abstain i think it quite amazing actually.
that's true, these poll results are far more noble than what you'd get from a general population sample i think :anjali:
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2761
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:47 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:56 am
I am actually at point where i am impressed so many would abstain i think it quite amazing actually. I would expect these kind of poll results in regards to "is fishing ok" almost, this is abstaining in self defense, quite awesome.
Funny that those who cannot even stop being seduced my music & cannot even sleep properly at night believe they have the Noble power to refrain from killing living beings; believe they are going to die as a Saint Martyr like Jesus on a Cross :roll: . Below, Ajahn Chah arranges the killing of worms:

Image

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:51 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:47 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:56 am
I am actually at point where i am impressed so many would abstain i think it quite amazing actually. I would expect these kind of poll results in regards to "is fishing ok" almost, this is abstaining in self defense, quite awesome.
Funny that those who cannot even stop being seduced my music & cannot even sleep properly at night believe they have the Noble power to refrain from killing living beings; believe they are going to die like Jesus on a Cross :roll: . Below, Ajahn Chah arranges the killing of worms:

Image
have not intentionally killed since 10.11.2015 by asservation of this truth may you be happy.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2761
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:54 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:51 am
have not intentionally killed since 10.11.2015 by asservation of this truth may you be happy.
Evidence (since your speech here is generally questionable)? Also, I am not a woman having a difficult child birth. What about the other of the 8 precepts?
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2761
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:00 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:56 am
if you were to leave the forum if all those authors deny your representation of their position, id contact them. Confident?
Maybe read the following first and report back.
https://ocbs.org/wp-content/uploads/201 ... ticity.pdf

Some inauthentic passages in the Early Buddhist Texts - Discuss ...
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/so ... /5795?...3
This article is collaboratively authored by Bhikkhu Sujato and Bhikkhu Brahmali. It is a work in progress. ... sujato: I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but to be clear: many discourses contain a mix of authentic and inauthentic elements. In fact, few of the suttas in the EBTs would have been simply invented out of nothing.
Some inauthentic passages in the Early Buddhist Texts - Reading ...

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/so ... ly.../5795?...

Jul 29, 2017 - This article is collaboratively authored by Bhikkhu Sujato and Bhikkhu Brahmali. It is a work in progress. Those who come to the early Buddhist texts often ask how they are to know what passages can be regarded as auth…
The Authenticity of the Early Buddhist texts | Sujato's Blog
https://sujato.wordpress.com/2014/04/23 ... ist-texts/

Apr 23, 2014 - That kind of approach has been disregarded by any serious scholar of the primary Pali Suttas, and seen as, as was in this case above, (unfortunately) ad hominem and lacking in evidentiary foundation. What Vens. Sujato and Brahmali have done is not apologetics, but serious work by two men who by their ...

On authenticity | Sujato's Blog
https://sujato.wordpress.com/2013/01/15 ... henticity/
Jan 15, 2013 - In the past few weeks, I've started a project with Bhante Brahmali, which we call "The Authenticity Project". ... The Buddha in the Sandaka Sutta even warned against over reliance on the authenticity of the texts, saying that, since the teachings may be 'well heard or badly heard', one's spiritual life should not ...
Missing: inauthentic

The Authenticity of the Early Buddhist Text | Buddhist Society of ...
https://bswa.org/teaching/authenticity- ... -sujato-2/
Ajahn Sujato uses this opportunity to describe his recently published book entitled 'The Authenticity of the Early Buddhist Text', written by himself and Ajahn Brahmali. Ajahn explains what the book's about and why they produced it. Ajahn talks about the benefits of reading and discussing the suttas, but points out that the ...
Missing: inauthentic

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:00 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:54 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:51 am
have not intentionally killed since 10.11.2015 by asservation of this truth may you be happy.
So what? I am not a woman having a difficult child birth. What about the other of the 8 precepts?
i do not think it is appropriate for me to confess to you but i did keep 8 precepts for a good part of last last year and about 3 months total in 2016.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2761
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:02 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:00 am
i do not think it is appropriate for me to confess to you but i did keep 8 precepts for a good part of last last year and about 3 months total in 2016.
I don't really care. In Buddhism, is its Stream-Enterers & above that are honored (and not those clinging to & fondling with rules). :anjali:
Now, a trifling evil act done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in the body, developed in virtue, developed in mind [i.e., painful feelings cannot invade the mind and stay there], developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the immeasurable. A trifling evil act done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:02 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:54 am
Evidence (since your speech here is generally questionable)?
Show me where my speech is questionable. I am glad that you are impressed with my virtues so much that u would want evidence.
I was expecting maybe that it was not long enough for you folks who are not bound to sensual pleasures and strongly motivated to practice
Last edited by rightviewftw on Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dylanj
Posts: 784
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:48 am
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by dylanj » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:04 am

DooDoot at least 2 of your links are broke

:computerproblem:
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

User avatar
DooDoot
Posts: 2761
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:06 pm

Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:04 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:02 am
Show me where my speech is questionable.
The majority of posts on the forum are questionable in being right view.
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:02 am
I am glad that you are impressed with my virtues so much that u would want evidence.
I showed no evidence of being impressed. If you are not a Stream-Enterer, I can't really honor you. Noble Sangha is the Refuge.

:hello:
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 53 guests