Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.

If you had to kill in self defense or to save others would you?

Yes
19
54%
No
16
46%
 
Total votes: 35

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DooDoot
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:01 am

Disciple wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:37 am
Isn't all killing bad kamma in buddhism?
Where is this found in the suttas? The suttas often describe how a King executes a murderer, thief or adulterer for their crimes. These suttas say the murderer, thief or adulterer commits bad karma but they do not comment on the King.
Suppose, Susima, that a robber, an evil-doer, having been caught, were shown to a king: 'This, your majesty, is a robber, an evil-doer. Decree what punishment you want for him.' And so the king would say, 'Go and — having bound him with a stout rope with his arms pinned tightly against his back, having shaved him bald — march him to a harsh-sounding drum from street to street, crossroads to crossroads; evict him out the south gate of the city and there, to the south of the city, cut off his head.' Then the king's men, having bound the man with a stout rope with his arms pinned tightly against his back, would march him to a harsh-sounding drum from street to street, crossroads to crossroads, evict him out the south gate of the city and there, to the south of the city, cut off his head. What do you think, Susima? Wouldn't that man, for that reason, experience pain & distress?"

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

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rightviewftw
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:07 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:01 am
Disciple wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:37 am
Isn't all killing bad kamma in buddhism?
Where is this found in the suttas? The suttas often describe how a King executes a murderer, thief or adulterer for their crimes. These suttas say the murderer, thief or adulterer commits bad karma but they do not comment on the King.
Suppose, Susima, that a robber, an evil-doer, having been caught, were shown to a king: 'This, your majesty, is a robber, an evil-doer. Decree what punishment you want for him.' And so the king would say, 'Go and — having bound him with a stout rope with his arms pinned tightly against his back, having shaved him bald — march him to a harsh-sounding drum from street to street, crossroads to crossroads; evict him out the south gate of the city and there, to the south of the city, cut off his head.' Then the king's men, having bound the man with a stout rope with his arms pinned tightly against his back, would march him to a harsh-sounding drum from street to street, crossroads to crossroads, evict him out the south gate of the city and there, to the south of the city, cut off his head. What do you think, Susima? Wouldn't that man, for that reason, experience pain & distress?"

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
You should check out the Brahmajala Sutta, talks about origins of matter and killing.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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cappuccino
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by cappuccino » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:07 am

even duels to the death can be avoided

and they often were avoided
Last edited by cappuccino on Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DooDoot
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:08 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:07 am
you should check out the Brahmajala Sutta.
You should provide a relevant quote from the Brahmajala Sutta.

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cappuccino
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by cappuccino » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:09 am

one doesn't need to join a war

it's not your business, war
Last edited by cappuccino on Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:09 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:08 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:07 am
you should check out the Brahmajala Sutta.
You should provide a relevant quote from the Brahmajala Sutta.
I should? like in i owe you this? How about a thank you kind sir? You attacked Disciple for a very minor thing and unrightfully mind you, i posted it so thread would not derail because you have a problem with the aggregates.
Last edited by rightviewftw on Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DooDoot
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:12 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:09 am
I should? like in i owe you this? How about a thank you kind sir?
You raised the sutta. For proper civility in discussion, you should provide whatever quote you believe is relevant. Otherwise, your post is pointless.

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rightviewftw
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:14 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:12 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:09 am
I should? like in i owe you this? How about a thank you kind sir?
You raised the sutta. For proper civility in discussion, you should provide whatever quote you believe is relevant. Otherwise, your post is pointless.
I did not even raise the Sutta, you asked for Info, i gave you coordinates. You are welcome.
my post is pointless? it is the only sutta that talks about origination of killing go look yourself, you lazy idonteven...
Last edited by rightviewftw on Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:20 am, edited 3 times in total.

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dylanj
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by dylanj » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:14 am

i voted no but i'll clarify that's an ideal, i can't say what i'd actually do, but i hope i would not kill as the consequences would necessarily be worse if i did than if i didn't
susukhaṁ vata nibbānaṁ,
sammā­sambud­dha­desitaṁ;
asokaṁ virajaṁ khemaṁ,
yattha dukkhaṁ nirujjhatī


Oh! extinction is so very blissful,
As taught by the One Rightly Self-Awakened:
Sorrowless, stainless, secure;
Where suffering all ceases


etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭi nissaggo taṇhakkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānaṁ

This is peaceful, this is excellent, that is: the stilling of all preparations, the relinquishment of all attachments, the destruction of craving, detachment, cessation, extinction.

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DooDoot
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:28 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:14 am
I did not even raise the Sutta, you asked for Info, i gave you coordinates. You are welcome. my post is pointless? it is the only sutta that talks about origination of killing go look yourself, you lazy i dont even...
I found nothing in the Brahmajala Sutta, apart from the rules for monks. Are are sure you gave the right coordinates? :smile:

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rightviewftw
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:37 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:28 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:14 am
I did not even raise the Sutta, you asked for Info, i gave you coordinates. You are welcome. my post is pointless? it is the only sutta that talks about origination of killing go look yourself, you lazy i dont even...
I found nothing in the Brahmajala Sutta, apart from the rules for monks. Are are sure you gave the right coordinates? :smile:
wrong sutta indeed sry you want https://suttacentral.net/en/dn27 7. A Book of Genesis

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DooDoot
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:57 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:37 am
wrong sutta indeed sry you want https://suttacentral.net/en/dn27 7. A Book of Genesis
DN 27, it is highly unlikely the Buddha actually spoke this mythology. A Book of Genesis. Regardless, I found nothing in it to support whatever it is you are attempting to say here. The issue is: "Is it bad kamma for a parent to kill a person or animal that threatens to murder their child?" Is it bad kamma when authorities kill dangerous child-killing dogs?



Will this brave small dog in this video be reincarnated as human, like in the Jataka Tales? :smile:


If, while he is dwelling by means of this dwelling, his mind inclines to speaking, he resolves that 'I will not engage in talk that is base, vulgar, common, ignoble, unbeneficial, that does not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calm, direct knowledge, self-awakening, or Unbinding — i.e., talk about kings, robbers, & ministers of state; armies, alarms, & battles; food & drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, & scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women & heroes; the gossip of the street & the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity, the creation of the world & of the sea; talk of whether things exist or not.' In this way he is alert there.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Last edited by DooDoot on Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.


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DooDoot
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by DooDoot » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:14 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:12 am
im gonna add u to foe list and ignore you, gl
The defeated live in pain. Happily the peaceful live, giving up victory and defeat. Dhammapada 201. :meditate:

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rightviewftw
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by rightviewftw » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:16 am

DooDoot wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:14 am
rightviewftw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:12 am
im gonna add u to foe list and ignore you, gl
The defeated live in pain. Happily the peaceful live, giving up victory and defeat. Dhammapada 201. :meditate:
you should look up what defeat means in the discipline of the noble ones

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