Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

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If you had to kill in self defense or to save others would you?

Yes
21
57%
No
16
43%
 
Total votes: 37

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No_Mind
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Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by No_Mind »

If you had to kill someone in self-defense or to save others would you?

Thought Experiment - There is a terrorist driving a truck filled with explosives towards children playing on the beach. You have a button that when pressed will kill the man. Will you press it (as last resort after all other options have been exhausted) and stop the man?



:namaste:
Last edited by No_Mind on Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
User1249x
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by User1249x »

idk hope not
most likely would easily not press unless i knew the people who were going to die
try asking if people would kill their mother to save rest of humanity and mother begged to do it and it would be instant & painless
Last edited by User1249x on Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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No_Mind
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by No_Mind »

User1249x wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:10 am idk hope not
Then you are okay with death of children .. even though you had means to stop it?

It is not a challenge of your view .. I am just trying to get you to be candid and categorical about your action/inaction as case may be.

If my mother was threatening humanity I would surely kill her to stop her from harming innocents. No questions asked.

:namaste:
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
User1249x
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by User1249x »

No_Mind wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:13 am Then you are okay with death of children .. even though you had means to stop it?
I can't control death or what other people do.
No_Mind wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:13 am I am just trying to get you to be candid and categorical about your action/inaction as case may be.
I do not intentionally kill or advice others to kill. That is my position.
Last edited by User1249x on Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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No_Mind
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by No_Mind »

User1249x wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:14 am
No_Mind wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:13 am Then you are okay with death of children .. even though you had means to stop it?
I can't control death or what other people do. I do not intentionally kill or recomend others to kill. That is my position.
But you avoided my question. Are you okay with death of children even though you had means to stop it? Be candid and categorical .. I am not looking to challenge you .. just need clear answers on this one

No greys please .. answer in binary mode

:namaste:
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
User1249x
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by User1249x »

No_Mind wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:16 am But you avoided my question. Are you okay with death of children even though you had means to stop it.
I do not mean to avoid your question.
You are not being fair demanding a categorical answer to this without explaining what you mean by "being OK".
I would say i am OK with it in sense that i will rather choose to wake up tomorrow knowing that i did not do it and it would not torment me
Last edited by User1249x on Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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No_Mind
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by No_Mind »

User1249x wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:18 am
No_Mind wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:16 am But you avoided my question. Are you okay with death of children even though you had means to stop it.
I do not mean to avoid your question.
You are not being fair demanding a categorical answer to this without explaining what you mean by "being OK"
Being Okay --> Would - not stopping the terrorist by pressing the button that kills him - be in accordance/line with your moral compass?

:namaste:
Last edited by No_Mind on Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
User1249x
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by User1249x »

No_Mind wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:20 am Being Okay - Would not stopping the terrorist by pressing the button that kills him be in accordance/line with your moral compass
absolutely not, stopping him is against my moral compass and i hope i would have enough Sati to follow my strategy and not be overcome by emotions.

If you kill that makes you a murderer, if you do not kill what is the blame here? Not being a killer? how is that a bad thing...
So terrorist is bad because he kills on account of views and you are justified in killing him on account of yours, let's see what your positions is in regards to killing family members.
id like to ask you this;
Would you **** mother or father to save rest of humanity and mother or father begged to do it and it would be instant & painless?
Would you **** terminally ill parent to save another?
Answer and i will make a statement.
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DooDoot
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by DooDoot »

No_Mind wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:07 amIf you had to kill someone in self-defense or to save others would you?
This seems to be a fantasy-based question because this situation has never occurred in my life & because I do not have any weapons to use. :roll:
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

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No_Mind
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by No_Mind »

User1249x wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:21 am If you kill that makes you a murderer, if you do not kill what is the blame here? Not being a killer? how is that a bad thing...
So terrorist is bad because he kills on account of views and you are justified in killing him on account of yours, let's see what your positions is in regards to killing family members.
id like to ask you this;
Would you **** mother or father to save rest of humanity and mother or father begged to do it and it would be instant & painless?
Would you **** terminally ill parent to save another?
Answer and i will make a statement.
Does **** stand for kill? If so I have already answered it.
No_Mind wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:13 am If my mother was threatening humanity I would surely kill her to stop her from harming innocents. No questions asked.

:namaste:
Instant and painless / terminally ill patient - are outside the purview of this thought experiment.

:namaste:
"The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.”― Albert Camus
User1249x
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by User1249x »

No_Mind wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:36 am If my mother was threatening humanity I would surely kill her to stop her from harming innocents. No questions asked.
Right i missed it. Tbh idk what to say even but i want to question you more.
So your mother's intent is to kill all humans excl you.
What if you are innocent and everybody but your mother is trying to kill them all with a single push of a button to save you?
thepea
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by thepea »

No_Mind wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:07 am If you had to kill someone in self-defense or to save others would you?
I swatted at some bees that were after my daughter I don’t think I was trying to kill them, but I was pretty intent on protecting my daughter. It happened very quickly. If they persisted I think I would do what it took to protect her. I imagine I would respond the same way if a human attacked her. :shrug:
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dylanj
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by dylanj »

No_Mind wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:13 am If my mother was threatening humanity I would surely kill her to stop her from harming innocents. No questions asked.
this is ānantarika kamma, you would go to hell
Last edited by dylanj on Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Ceasing of all factors of suffering – stilling of all preparations is bliss
Disciple
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by Disciple »

If it had to do with saving family then absolutely yes. I'll take the bad karma for it.
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DooDoot
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Re: Poll - If you had to kill in self-defense would you?

Post by DooDoot »

Disciple wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:52 amIf it had to do with saving family then absolutely yes. I'll take the bad karma for it.
Why do you say it is 'bad kamma'?
There is the case where a certain person takes life...bloody-handed, devoted to killing & slaying, showing no mercy to living beings.

AN 10.176
Intention, I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech & intellect.

AN 6.63
There is always an official executioner. If you try to take his place, It is like trying to be a master carpenter and cutting wood. If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand.

https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/paticcasamuppada
https://soundcloud.com/doodoot/anapanasati
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