Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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cappuccino
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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by cappuccino » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:54 am

People hate.

You cannot tell them a better way.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by befriend » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:01 am

Read the saw simile sutta.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by befriend » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:03 am

Even if bandits were to sever you limb from limb with a two handled saw anyone who gives rise to a mind of hatred towards them would not be abiding by my teaching.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by alan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:15 am

Yes of course I know that.
But still, there are things that need to be hated, unless you want to become a dull--minded nobody , who just sits around saying stuff that has no relation to reality.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by alan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:28 am

Just sitting is not an option when the world is going to hell, I say.
If you are happy to accept God Dam Donald Trump as President, then you are a God Dam Fool. So say I.
Because these people who just sit around and put out platitudes are just as stupid as the God Dam Idiots who voted for this God Dam Sh*thead.
To Hell with them, I say, and to Hell with everyone else that is not disgusted by this horrible thing that is happening.
Will you just sit around, and let a horrible thing happen?
If you do, well, then you do not have my respect. Because doing so makes you a God Dam Idiot.
Last edited by alan on Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:32 am

Greetings Alan,
alan wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:28 am
Just sitting is not an option when the world is going to hell, I say.
Just sitting is a very good option when your world is going to hell. Or better still, sit and throw in a bit of Right Effort for good measure...
SN 45.8 wrote:"And what, monks, is right effort?

(i) "There is the case where a monk generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the non-arising of evil, unskillful qualities that have not yet arisen.

(ii) "He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the abandonment of evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen.

(iii) "He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the arising of skillful qualities that have not yet arisen.

(iv) "He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the maintenance, non-confusion, increase, plenitude, development, & culmination of skillful qualities that have arisen: This, monks, is called right effort."
Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by befriend » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:34 am

have compassion for there defilements. They suffer from them now and in the future. When one is enmeshed in hate greed or delusion one does not know the good for themselves or others. Have equanimity the 4 states of mind Buddha felt were the brahma viharas. What does hatred do? How does that help or change anything. It's not mindfulness of external feeling i.e. Feelings of others. Do you want someone to suffer? Why? They could be so happy. Look at Asoka the old king of India he was a blood thirsty war monger until he saw a peaceful monk and Asoka thought why is this monk so happy he has nothing I have everything and the king then went on to learn Dhamma. Hatred is hyper simplification. There is no such thing as Donald trump.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by alan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:36 am

But, are you really willing to sit, even when everything else is going to hell? even when there are more things you can do to stop the world from going to hell?

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by alan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:38 am

I'm totally into Right Effort. But that is not an answer, or a proper response, to my post.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:41 am

Greetings Alan,
alan wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:36 am
But, are you really willing to sit, even when everything else is going to hell?
Not just sit, I'm also willing to support Trump.

Image
alan wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:36 am
...even when there are more things you can do to stop the world from going to hell?
I guess I could buy an official Make America Great Again hat to help contribute to his 2020 re-election. Thanks for the suggestion.

:thumbsup:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by Polar Bear » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:47 am

alan wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:15 am
Yes of course I know that.
But still, there are things that need to be hated, unless you want to become a dull--minded nobody , who just sits around saying stuff that has no relation to reality.
It's actually perfectly possible to undertake actions that will help slow down or halt Trump's agenda without hating him or even getting angry. It is sufficient to understand that something is harmful and then do something to counteract that harm, no need for hate and anger, just understanding and good-willed, compassionate, mentally-balanced and equanimous action in line with that understanding.

What have you done, Alan, to work against Trump's agenda aside from huff and puff on internet forums? And with those other things that you may have done, is hate a necessary condition for you to engage in them?

Here's an example contrasting a sensible course of action from an extremely hate-filled one:

I really like nature and wildlife. Humans are the biggest threat to nature and wildlife. But I don't hate humans. Instead, I periodically donate money to provide education and contraception to women so that they produce fewer humans (and live better lives themselves), I donate to environmental and wildlife focused organizations, I sign petitions and vote on issues that help protect wildlife, and I try to do or not do certain things in order to lower my own impact on the natural world and wildlife.

In contrast, if I hated humans I might be angry all the time and flood my body with large amounts of unpleasant cortisol, and do something crazy, like get a phd in virology and then attempt to create a virus to wipeout and/or sterilize all humans, or some significant subset of them.

What sounds like a better life among the two scenarios above, becoming a constantly angry mad-scientist, or helping the natural world and humans while working to attain my own peace of mind?
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by alan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:48 am

Schiff/Hoelzle 2020. Make America Smart Again.
Last edited by alan on Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:50 am

Greetings Alan,
alan wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:48 am
Schiff/Hoelzle 2020
Flip the ticket and I'll buy one of your hats too.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

alan
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by alan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:52 am

Only 20 bucks, free shipping to my Aussie friends.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by DNS » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:55 am

alan wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:48 am
Schiff/Hoelzle 2020. Make America Smart Again.
Adam Schiff?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Schiff

Nah, let's vote for the intelligent one this time: Harambe
The dead gorilla had 5% support in late July 2016 (ahead of Green Party nominee Jill Stein) and 2% in August 2016 (tied with Stein).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_o ... _biography

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