Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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SDC
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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by SDC » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:47 am

alan wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:44 am
Jazz? I love that.
:twothumbsup:

alan
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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by alan » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:01 am

That's Lester Young on the sax solo. If you like that, listen to this. Because Jazz is a good thing, all the time. No complaining.

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Stiphan
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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by Stiphan » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:21 pm

I want to thank Sam Vara and Nicolas, and I can now say that I agree with them that there is no room for hatred towards anything, let alone anyone. In such cases as I previously might have opined that "hating evil might be appropriate," I now believe that one should arouse equanimity instead and the corresponding peaceful action. Thanks a lot both of you.

chownah
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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by chownah » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:26 am

Anything that can be done with hatred can be done without hatred. Hatred is not necessary. It is just extra stress that one is adding to ones experience.
chowah

Meezer77
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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by Meezer77 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:47 am

chownah wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:26 am
Anything that can be done with hatred can be done without hatred. Hatred is not necessary. It is just extra stress that one is adding to ones experience.
chowah
This is true. But how do you stop it? Even after listening/reading lots of dhamma, I still often feel overwhelmed with it at times

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by chownah » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:00 am

Meezer77 wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:47 am
chownah wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:26 am
Anything that can be done with hatred can be done without hatred. Hatred is not necessary. It is just extra stress that one is adding to ones experience.
chowah
This is true. But how do you stop it? Even after listening/reading lots of dhamma, I still often feel overwhelmed with it at times
I think that anger always precedes hatred....here is what I do when anger arises:
I remind myself that anger arises because of the delusional view of self. I remind my self that I am indulging in the fabrication of a self for the person I am angry towards.....I remember that in that other body there are the five clinging aggregates and in my very body there are the five clinging aggregates....but no self anywhere.....and.....thus both the hater and the hated are devoid of self....etc. etc.
I don't think these words....I used to think some similar sorts of words but after doing this for a long time I don't need to think very many words and just the discrenment that it is all aggregates on both sides is enough to cool my jets usually.
chownah

Meezer77
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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by Meezer77 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:45 pm

Good for you! My temperament appears to be quite ingrained and getting worse with age

chownah
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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by chownah » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:27 am

Meezer77 wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:45 pm
Good for you! My temperament appears to be quite ingrained and getting worse with age
Temperment is a good way to observe that delusional self that thinks its running the show. It doesn't matter if your temperment is good or bad.....either way someone might find that it is the wedge with which they can crack open that hard nut of self.
Everyone is different and everyone has different experiences and everyone interprets their different experiences differently so I hesitate to make suggestions on how to proceed in pursuing this strategy (assuming that anyone might want to) but I will say that I think that throwing out parts of ones practice in order to try something new is probably not a good strategy. Whatever one has developed as a practice is meaningful in that it is a reflection of alot of thought and choices which one has made over some period of time....so.....it is probably better for most people to try something new in a very gradual sort of and perhaps indirect sort of way.....sort of like one might do what one usually does and at some time just additionally use a bit of discernment and time to think a bit about a new idea.....in time maybe that new idea will grow....or maybe not.
Again, I hesitate to give suggestions about some else's practice.....I really have no basis for making such suggestions.........
chownah

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Stiphan
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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by Stiphan » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:47 pm

I don't know if this classifies as "hatred", but the Buddha has this to say about certain psychic powers in the Kevaṭṭa Sutta [aka Kevaḍḍha Sutta]:

‘And that is why, Kevaddha, seeing the danger of such miracles, I dislike, reject and despise them.
-DN 11 / D I 213

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by Meezer77 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:40 pm

Yes, all these things are very good, though emotion regulation is not my forte. It's very hard for me not to get upset by things sometimes. I think it's genetics and my upbringing. My understanding of aggregates is that we shouldn't take things too seriously because everything is temporary, but to actually realise that is easier said than done I think.

chownah
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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by chownah » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:11 am

Meezer77 wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:40 pm
Yes, all these things are very good, though emotion regulation is not my forte. It's very hard for me not to get upset by things sometimes. I think it's genetics and my upbringing. My understanding of aggregates is that we shouldn't take things too seriously because everything is temporary, but to actually realise that is easier said than done I think.
Emotion regulation is not my forte either.....but I don't worry about it. Instead of worrying about it what I do is study it. Most people do not even think about "I am angry", "I was angry", "I feel like I am gettinig angry". Some people have these thoughts cross their minds but all that the thoughts do is quickly pass through....this is better than not having these introspective thoughts at all. But some people examine these thoughts and ask questions about these thoughts...how?, when?, where? why? and of course from my perspective which strongly relies on the idea of self identity I ask "who"?

So....I have sort of given a spectrum of individual reactions to the arising of anger....from being pretty much unaware to being fully engaged in discernment. I think that all of us lie somewhere on that spectrum and by simply realizing that we can see what we can do to progress.

One thing that can help people at every level is clarity of mind to aid discernment....this is done by learning to calm and focus the mind.....the practice of calming and focusing the mind is called meditation......there are many kinds.....seems like they all help. Even a low level type of meditation will improve discernment. With improved discernment it is likely that meditation will improve....endless feedback loops start with baby steps....
chownah

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