Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:36 am

Greetings Alan,
alan wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:48 am
My good friend Retro, why it is the inverse of the Dhamma to hate someone who preaches hate?
The suttas linked to immediately above by Nicholas are adequate to make my case.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by alan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:40 am

Yeah, All the Jews should not be angry, they should not be hateful. They should not fight back!
Better to just give in,
Right?

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by Nicolas » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:45 am

Again, read the suttas and try to understand the Buddha’s words. It seems like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of them.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by DNS » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:46 am

alan wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:40 am
Yeah, All the Jews should not be angry, they should not be hateful. They should not fight back!
Better to just give in,
Right?
I had anger but never hate. Before the war, I was too busy studying to hate. After the war, I thought, What's the use? To hate would be to reduce myself.
Elie Weisel

We have adopted in the modern world a sort of a relativistic ethic... Most people can't stand up for their convictions, because the majority of people might not be doing it. See, everybody's not doing it, so it must be wrong. And since everybody is doing it, it must be right. So a sort of numerical interpretation of what's right. But I'm here to say to you this morning that some things are right and some things are wrong. Eternally so, absolutely so. It's wrong to hate. It always has been wrong and it always will be wrong. It's wrong in America, it's wrong in Germany, it's wrong in Russia, it's wrong in China. It was wrong in 2000 B.C., and it's wrong in 1954 A.D. It always has been wrong, and it always will be wrong. It's wrong to throw our lives away in riotous living. No matter if everybody in Detroit is doing it, it's wrong. It always will be wrong, and it always has been wrong. It's wrong in every age and it's wrong in every nation. Some things are right and some things are wrong, no matter if everybody is doing the contrary. Some things in this universe are absolute. The God of the universe has made it so. And so long as we adopt this relative attitude toward right and wrong, we're revolting against the very laws of God himself.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by alan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:50 am

Point is what?

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by cappuccino » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:54 am

People hate.

You cannot tell them a better way.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by befriend » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:01 am

Read the saw simile sutta.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by befriend » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:03 am

Even if bandits were to sever you limb from limb with a two handled saw anyone who gives rise to a mind of hatred towards them would not be abiding by my teaching.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by alan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:15 am

Yes of course I know that.
But still, there are things that need to be hated, unless you want to become a dull--minded nobody , who just sits around saying stuff that has no relation to reality.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by alan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:28 am

Just sitting is not an option when the world is going to hell, I say.
If you are happy to accept God Dam Donald Trump as President, then you are a God Dam Fool. So say I.
Because these people who just sit around and put out platitudes are just as stupid as the God Dam Idiots who voted for this God Dam Sh*thead.
To Hell with them, I say, and to Hell with everyone else that is not disgusted by this horrible thing that is happening.
Will you just sit around, and let a horrible thing happen?
If you do, well, then you do not have my respect. Because doing so makes you a God Dam Idiot.
Last edited by alan on Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:32 am

Greetings Alan,
alan wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:28 am
Just sitting is not an option when the world is going to hell, I say.
Just sitting is a very good option when your world is going to hell. Or better still, sit and throw in a bit of Right Effort for good measure...
SN 45.8 wrote:"And what, monks, is right effort?

(i) "There is the case where a monk generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the non-arising of evil, unskillful qualities that have not yet arisen.

(ii) "He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the abandonment of evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen.

(iii) "He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the sake of the arising of skillful qualities that have not yet arisen.

(iv) "He generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for the maintenance, non-confusion, increase, plenitude, development, & culmination of skillful qualities that have arisen: This, monks, is called right effort."
Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by befriend » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:34 am

have compassion for there defilements. They suffer from them now and in the future. When one is enmeshed in hate greed or delusion one does not know the good for themselves or others. Have equanimity the 4 states of mind Buddha felt were the brahma viharas. What does hatred do? How does that help or change anything. It's not mindfulness of external feeling i.e. Feelings of others. Do you want someone to suffer? Why? They could be so happy. Look at Asoka the old king of India he was a blood thirsty war monger until he saw a peaceful monk and Asoka thought why is this monk so happy he has nothing I have everything and the king then went on to learn Dhamma. Hatred is hyper simplification. There is no such thing as Donald trump.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by alan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:36 am

But, are you really willing to sit, even when everything else is going to hell? even when there are more things you can do to stop the world from going to hell?

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by alan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:38 am

I'm totally into Right Effort. But that is not an answer, or a proper response, to my post.

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Re: Is hatred always bad, if you hate what should be hated?

Post by retrofuturist » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:41 am

Greetings Alan,
alan wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:36 am
But, are you really willing to sit, even when everything else is going to hell?
Not just sit, I'm also willing to support Trump.

Image
alan wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:36 am
...even when there are more things you can do to stop the world from going to hell?
I guess I could buy an official Make America Great Again hat to help contribute to his 2020 re-election. Thanks for the suggestion.

:thumbsup:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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