What everyone participating in forums should understand

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Stiphan
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What everyone participating in forums should understand

Post by Stiphan » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:56 pm

harmony.jpg
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retrofuturist
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Re: What everyone participating in forums should understand

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:05 pm

Greetings Stiphan,

... except that the precursor of the whole Noble Eightfold Path is Right View, not Harmony View.

8-)

Now, obviously I'm being a little cheeky there, but when non-comforming views are suppressed, any harmony that arrives from that pressure to conform, is truly superficial, restrictive and unstable. (Unless someone goes to the effort of establishing a community as a cult... the manipulation and authoritarianism used in such communities is designed to offset that instability)

There's something to be said for the ability to tolerate diverse viewpoints, because if we can't cope with other people's views, then a fragile peace can only be obtained, when isolated from the world. (One of the Western Thai Forest monks used to recount stories of the ilk, from his early days... from memory I think it may have been Ajahn Sumedho).

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: What everyone participating in forums should understand

Post by SarathW » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:26 pm

except that the precursor of the whole Noble Eightfold Path is Right View, not Harmony View.
Agree.
We should be able to discuss what is right and wrong without compromising the harmony.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: What everyone participating in forums should understand

Post by Polar Bear » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:40 pm

retrofuturist wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:05 pm
Greetings Stiphan,

... except that the precursor of the whole Noble Eightfold Path is Right View, not Harmony View.

That is not entirely right :tongue: . The idea of samma being translated as harmonious pops up here and there as an alternative translation, with some support from the dictionary:

viewtopic.php?t=25686

In any event, I don't see why being right and being harmonious are mutually exclusive.

:stirthepot:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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retrofuturist
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Re: What everyone participating in forums should understand

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:44 pm

Greetings Polarbear101,
polarbear101 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:40 pm
In any event, I don't see why being right and being harmonious are mutually exclusive.
Like you, and Sarath above... I agree entirely.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Re: What everyone participating in forums should understand

Post by JohnK » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:36 am

polarbear101 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:40 pm
...I don't see why being right and being harmonious are mutually exclusive.
:stirthepot:
Yeah, being wrong and harmonious is the tough one. ;)
"...the practice is essentially a practice, and not a theory to be idly discussed...right view leaves unanswered many questions about the cosmos and the self, and directs your attention to what needs to be done to escape from the ravages of suffering." Thanissaro Bhikkhu, On The Path.

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Sam Vara
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Re: What everyone participating in forums should understand

Post by Sam Vara » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:55 am

JohnK wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:36 am

Yeah, being wrong and harmonious is the tough one. ;)
:rofl: Here in the UK we're used to seeing it, John: we had Tony Blair as Prime Minister.

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Re: What everyone participating in forums should understand

Post by m0rl0ck » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:31 am

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).

~Mark Twain

The real trick is being right without letting every idiot in the thread run it into the ground. Say your piece and quit.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Re: What everyone participating in forums should understand

Post by SarathW » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:36 am

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." - George S. Patton
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

chownah
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Re: What everyone participating in forums should understand

Post by chownah » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:20 am

This is how forums should be?:

?
chownah

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Stiphan
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Re: What everyone participating in forums should understand

Post by Stiphan » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:37 am

Recently, I asked a Buddhist friend (who's also looking to ordain) whether he knew of Dhamma Wheel. When he asked what's that and I explained it's a forum, he said he doesn't participate in forums because there's just too much arguing going around there and he already gets a lot of that at home.

I guess what Ajahn Brahm is trying to say is that harmony between people, peace and love are much more important than trying to prove that your opinion alone is true by means of arguing. It's true that people are very argumentative on forums in general and not loving enough, which can cause even pain to some. But it doesn't mean you shouldn't state your opinion, or disagree with others, but just do it in a kind and courteous manner without hurting others' feelings through the way you are saying it.

DN 1:

“‘Whereas some ascetics and Brahmins remain addicted to disputation such as: ‘You don’t understand this doctrine and discipline - I do!’ ‘How could you understand this doctrine and discipline?’ ‘Your way is all wrong — mine is right!’ ‘I am consistent - you aren’t!’ ‘You said last what you should have said first, and you said first what you should have said last!’ ‘What you took so long to think up has been refuted!’ ‘Your argument has been overthrown, you’re defeated!’ ‘Go on, save your doctrine — get out of that if you can!’ the ascetic Gotama refrains from such disputation."

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Re: What everyone participating in forums should understand

Post by Dinsdale » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:16 am

JohnK wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:36 am
Yeah, being wrong and harmonious is the tough one. ;)
:thumbsup:
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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Re: What everyone participating in forums should understand

Post by Pseudobabble » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:15 am

Stiphan wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:37 am
Recently, I asked a Buddhist friend (who's also looking to ordain) whether he knew of Dhamma Wheel. When he asked what's that and I explained it's a forum, he said he doesn't participate in forums because there's just too much arguing going around there and he already gets a lot of that at home.

I guess what Ajahn Brahm is trying to say is that harmony between people, peace and love are much more important than trying to prove that your opinion alone is true by means of arguing. It's true that people are very argumentative on forums in general and not loving enough, which can cause even pain to some. But it doesn't mean you shouldn't state your opinion, or disagree with others, but just do it in a kind and courteous manner without hurting others' feelings through the way you are saying it.

DN 1:

“‘Whereas some ascetics and Brahmins remain addicted to disputation such as: ‘You don’t understand this doctrine and discipline - I do!’ ‘How could you understand this doctrine and discipline?’ ‘Your way is all wrong — mine is right!’ ‘I am consistent - you aren’t!’ ‘You said last what you should have said first, and you said first what you should have said last!’ ‘What you took so long to think up has been refuted!’ ‘Your argument has been overthrown, you’re defeated!’ ‘Go on, save your doctrine — get out of that if you can!’ the ascetic Gotama refrains from such disputation."
Agreed. I think there should be a limit on how many times someone can post in the News forum per day/week/month etc :tongue:
"Does Master Gotama have any position at all?"

"A 'position,' Vaccha, is something that a Tathagata has done away with. What a Tathagata sees is this: 'Such is form, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is feeling, such its origination, such its disappearance; such is perception...such are fabrications...such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.'" - Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta


'Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.' - Genesis 3:19

'Some fart freely, some try to hide and silence it. Which one is correct?' - Saegnapha

chownah
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Re: What everyone participating in forums should understand

Post by chownah » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:46 am

chownah wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:20 am
This is how forums should be?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3XNmHe4AQw
?
chownah
I guess a forum could have harmony like that....but....is it the only way that a forum could have harmony?.....maybe there is another way....


chownah

binocular
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Re: What everyone participating in forums should understand

Post by binocular » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:09 pm

Stiphan wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:37 am
I guess what Ajahn Brahm is trying to say is that harmony between people, peace and love are much more important than trying to prove that your opinion alone is true by means of arguing.

Was he talking about online forums?

What you're quoting from him applies well to ordinary day-to-day situations. But online discussion forums which are devoted to discussion are a quite different environment, and different principles apply.
It's true that people are very argumentative on forums in general and not loving enough, which can cause even pain to some.

But it doesn't mean you shouldn't state your opinion, or disagree with others, but just do it in a kind and courteous manner without hurting others' feelings through the way you are saying it.
That's missing the purpose of online discussion forums. Generally, online discussion forums are _not_ meant to be like families, or like communities, but are highly specific environments dedicated to discussion, not to living together. As far as online discussion forums go, the living together is incidental, secondary, not essential.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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