Buddhism and alcohol

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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oncereturner
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Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:58 pm

This company is not tolerant about sickness.

detox -> losing my job -> relapse -> losing my house

I may not lose my job, but there is a high risk.

In addition I've seen people coming in and out from detox. I talked to a man and the told me that he was in detox 26 times. I come in and out as well.

I can't go the AA, because I work until evening. And drank before and after AA meeting.

There must be another permanent solution. Yesterday I've read dhammapada for 4 hours, I understood it clearly, but then drank 8 beers.

I will not accept my fate. There should be a self-help solution, willpower maybe and avoiding stress triggers.

My plan is:
1. stop computer gaming
2. no girls
3. avoiding that liquor store, where I go usually after work, changing route (this will be the hardest)

I will recite Thanissaro Bhikkhu's words on my way
"As long as evil has yet to ripen, the fool mistakes it for honey. But when that evil ripens, the fool falls into pain."

4. avoiding forest
5. drink tea of St. John's Wort (withdrawal depression)
6. B-vitamins
7. sedatives (withdrawal anxiety)
8. avoiding foolish man, and find wise friends
9. reading sriptures and participating in DW forum

With Metta
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

Garrib
Posts: 486
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 8:35 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by Garrib » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:17 pm

You have a plan that sounds like it might work, but you have to stick to it!

binocular
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Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:24 pm

A suggestion:
Find new things to do, if possible, pleasurable or interesting ones.

For example: join the public library, go to a museum, the aquarium, go to a nice part of town where you normally don't go to.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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oncereturner
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Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:48 pm

Garrib wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:17 pm
You have a plan that sounds like it might work, but you have to stick to it!
I almost done it, sober and in good mood, changed my route away from the liquor store, but another store popped up. You already know the rest, 7 beers.
There are changes in my job for the very worse, next week I have to do a nerve-killer work with a horrible boss. I'm almost got sober, but now it is really too much.
I have no more plans. I'm afraid samsara awaits me.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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bodom
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Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:35 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:48 pm
Garrib wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:17 pm
You have a plan that sounds like it might work, but you have to stick to it!
I almost done it, sober and in good mood, changed my route away from the liquor store, but another store popped up. You already know the rest, 7 beers.
There are changes in my job for the very worse, next week I have to do a nerve-killer work with a horrible boss. I'm almost got sober, but now it is really too much.
I have no more plans. I'm afraid samsara awaits me.
How many meeting have you gone too? Who did you ask for help to keep you sober today? What are you doing exactly to help yourself? If Nothing changes Nothing changes.

:namaste:

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Nicolas
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Location: Somerville, MA, USA

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by Nicolas » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:20 pm

oncereturner:
Have you tried putting yourself in situations where there is no available alcohol? (e.g. meditation retreats, rehabilitation centers)
Do you live alone? Do you have friends who can hold you accountable? Do you have friends who also want to quit drinking?
One possibility is to make a bet with a friend: whoever drinks first has to give the other a non-negligible amount of money. Then you might be thinking "do I want to buy a beer or lose 30,000 forints?", and it might be easier to resist. (It can also be one-sided: you don't need to have friends who want to quit drinking.)
My father stopped smoking in his early twenties thanks to a monetary bet.

dharmacorps
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:33 pm

Nicolas wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:20 pm
One possibility is to make a bet with a friend: whoever drinks first has to give the other a non-negligible amount of money. Then you might be thinking "do I want to buy a beer or lose 30,000 forints?", and it might be easier to resist. (It can also be one-sided: you don't need to have friends who want to quit drinking.)
My father stopped smoking in his early twenties thanks to a monetary bet.
My goodness. That may work with smoking, but alcoholism is, in my opinion quite obviously, a completely different ball game. Although oncereturner is in some ways rejecting, so far, the well intended help of many people on here, he still deserves to get good advice because there are people on here who have been "there".

Monetary repercussions or other penalties (hospital visits, lost relationships, fights, depression, anxiety, jail, institutionalization) may stop someone from drinking (almost always temporarily) but will not keep someone sober. If you have been to an AA meeting you would know that the first week.

I think it would be good if we let people who have been through the experience of alcoholism dispense the advice because ideas like this are based ignorance of the disease process and beyond not being helpful, and potentially damaging. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I feel it needs to be said.

mal4mac
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Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:47 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by mal4mac » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:22 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:33 pm
I think it would be good if we let people who have been through the experience of alcoholism dispense the advice because ideas like this are based ignorance of the disease process and beyond not being helpful, and potentially damaging. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I feel it needs to be said.
Why would people who have been through alcoholism be the best advisers? What worked for them might not work for others. Seek advice from medical experts! For example, Baumeister, whose book I mentioned earlier. (He says go to AA, amongst many other things, but better to here it from him than from me, or some random alcoholic in a forum.)
- Mal

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Nicolas
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Location: Somerville, MA, USA

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by Nicolas » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:02 am

dharmacorps wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:33 pm
I think it would be good if we let people who have been through the experience of alcoholism dispense the advice because ideas like this are based ignorance of the disease process and beyond not being helpful, and potentially damaging. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I feel it needs to be said.
You're completely right. It hadn't occurred to me. I apologize.

manas
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by manas » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:38 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:54 pm
JeffR wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:16 am

Find people you can talk to who will support you in staying sober. The Buddha has said that good companions are the whole of the holy life.
I have a lot of friends, everyone says I must stop. A lot of people are worrying for me. I don't want to die. But life seems to be unbearable without alcohol, due to my severe depression.
Just reading this, makes me wonder if you could get a professional to dig a little deeper. and uncover the underlying cause of your depression? Is there something in your life or life history, that intoxicants help to suppress, or smooth over? If so, I can certainly relate, but in the end I realized that my chosen 'self-medication' was causing so much dukkha via side-effects (not to mention shortening my life), that I would rather confront the underlying pain and distress directly - it hurts, but not as much as losing one's life to addiction.

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oncereturner
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Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:10 pm

I experience a full-blown relapse. I never drink on Sundays, at least one day a week. I should extend this period for a longer time. My plan is a total failure. To be honest, all my plans fail.

I will never give up fighting this addiction. It seems to be impossible, but there must be some solution.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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oncereturner
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Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:04 pm

manas wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:38 pm

Just reading this, makes me wonder if you could get a professional to dig a little deeper. and uncover the underlying cause of your depression? Is there something in your life or life history, that intoxicants help to suppress, or smooth over? If so, I can certainly relate, but in the end I realized that my chosen 'self-medication' was causing so much dukkha via side-effects (not to mention shortening my life), that I would rather confront the underlying pain and distress directly - it hurts, but not as much as losing one's life to addiction.
The underlying cause is obvious, and clear. I lost my fancy house, and now I live in a ghetto. I have several pictures of my house, and I look at this pictures in tears.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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Ren
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by Ren » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:31 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:04 pm
manas wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:38 pm

Just reading this, makes me wonder if you could get a professional to dig a little deeper. and uncover the underlying cause of your depression? Is there something in your life or life history, that intoxicants help to suppress, or smooth over? If so, I can certainly relate, but in the end I realized that my chosen 'self-medication' was causing so much dukkha via side-effects (not to mention shortening my life), that I would rather confront the underlying pain and distress directly - it hurts, but not as much as losing one's life to addiction.
The underlying cause is obvious, and clear. I lost my fancy house, and now I live in a ghetto. I have several pictures of my house, and I look at this pictures in tears.
You know what the Buddha Dharma says on craving...

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bodom
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Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:49 pm

The underlying cause is obvious, and clear. I lost my fancy house, and now I live in a ghetto. I have several pictures of my house, and I look at this pictures in tears.
No, those are excuses why you continue to drink. It is ignorance and craving for your experience to be other than it is that is driving your addiction.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

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oncereturner
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Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:52 pm

Ren wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:31 pm

You know what the Buddha Dharma says on craving...
I lost my house and I'm about to lose this ghetto too, so I am nearly homeless. I was in the court today, due to my financial problems. The judge said I have a final chance. I will fight for this ghetto until to the end.

So it's from a fancy house to the streets.

I am extremely sad and depressed, alcohol gives me some relief. I am aware that this leads to nowhere. I must stop my addiction. But I have lost my mind.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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