Buddhism and alcohol

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
Locked
User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:46 am

I want to go to hospital, but my boss don't let me go. I've got to work. I didn't mention her I'm going to die.

In April I booked a time for an appointment to the hospital. I'll get inside, if I'm still alive next month.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

binocular
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:32 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:06 pm
Since Istanbul is very interesting city (I think the most historically significant place in Europe after Athens and Rome) you will not be bored and your mind will not turn to alcohol. You are from EU schengen zone so travel to Turkey is hassle free.

If you do need alcohol .. it is available but you have to work hard to find it.
Don't count on that.
https://www.tooistanbul.com/en/turkish-alcohols/
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:57 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:06 pm
oncereturner wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:17 am
Garrib wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:50 pm

I would advise you to ditch the alcohol - it doesn't make pain go away for long, and it brings more pain in its wake!
I feel very good, but next day is very bitter. Every morning I feel I'm going to die.I was in hospital 6 times related to toxication. I've already lost my self-control, I'm heavily addicted, doctor says I have 10 more years left at maximum. I'm 36. Without alcohol, I have no life, I feel depression.

Question is, to live with pain, mental illness, or die young with some joy?
Late to this topic .. I drank a pint of whiskey daily for five years in my twenties and gave it up. I still drink an occasional peg but with friends (birthday and such)

Alcoholism is not a disease and alcoholic can return to social drinking.

What you need is a massive "pattern interrupt". You live in Hungary. Go someplace for five days which has totally different culture. I would suggest Istanbul (by train so people can frown at you if you drink). Drinking is not as prevalent in Turkey as in Hungary. So .. it will be tough for you to find a bottle easily (I know those who drink can manage to find a bottle even in middle of the desert .. I have done so many times)

The shock to your system would carry you over next five days by which time you will have detoxed.

Since Istanbul is very interesting city (I think the most historically significant place in Europe after Athens and Rome) you will not be bored and your mind will not turn to alcohol. You are from EU schengen zone so travel to Turkey is hassle free. If you do need alcohol .. it is available but you have to work hard to find it.

Eat Turkish food (doner kebab and pilaf and baclava with tea) .. visit bazaars .. completely different culture from what you are used. If you can make it to one week (counting the train trip 168 hours outside Hungary) you will be cured

In my case after my immediate detox (first ten days) I took up exercise and got a six pack .. set a target .. I will run 11 miles in an hour and just do it .. that enormous amount of exercising for four years cured me of any wish to drink .. when I next drank after several years it tasted different.

Bottom line .. it is very easy to get rid of alcohol if one gets really interested in something else to fill the void .. exercise is the most usual filler.

:namaste:
I was in hospital again, asking for help. Doctor released me after one day, and gave me rivotril (strong benzo). The worst thing a doctor can do with an alcoholic. Next day I drank 12 beers and took rivotril. Congrats doctor, but you didn't managed to kill me.

My last hope is getting into rehab center, I have an appointment on April 10 with addiction specialist doctor.

:namaste:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

dharmacorps
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:25 pm

Great job Oncereturner. I am sorry about the bad doctors and bad advice you get in real life and on this forum. Keep persisting and go to rehab. :anjali:

User avatar
No_Mind
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:12 pm
Location: India

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by No_Mind » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:11 am

dharmacorps wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:25 pm
Great job Oncereturner. I am sorry about the bad doctors and bad advice you get in real life and on this forum. Keep persisting and go to rehab. :anjali:
Buddy, all of us are trying to help him for last 9 pages. Who are you to say we are giving bad advice?

Oncereturner shared his problem and everyone beginning with David and ending with me have given him support and advice. Why bad mouth us?

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

binocular
Posts: 5638
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:59 am

No_Mind wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:11 am
Oncereturner shared his problem and everyone beginning with David and ending with me have given him support and advice. Why bad mouth us?
Because there is exactly one true theory of addiction (and because it's The Truth, it's not a mere theory anyway), and exactly one true approach to ending addiction, and everything else is heresy.
:woohoo:
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:26 am

dharmacorps wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:25 pm
Great job Oncereturner. I am sorry about the bad doctors and bad advice you get in real life and on this forum. Keep persisting and go to rehab. :anjali:
Thank you. Without the help of this forum, I'd never realize that I have to go to rehab.

For today, my plan is not to drink, simple yet very difficult, maybe it's not impossible.

:anjali:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:41 am

They repair the pavement with asphalt, next to my window, with heavy machinery. The stench and noise is horrible. They will work for a month!

Meditate and relax, if you can...
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

dharmacorps
Posts: 562
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:37 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:11 am

Who are you to say we are giving bad advice?
A garden variety alcoholic in recovery who has gotten help from other people to solve his problem. A guy who has heard even one iota of the heap of scientific research about addiction.

But I don't need to be either of those to tell you, your now moderator-deleted "advice": Telling an alcoholic they don't have a disease and can continue drinking normally is just about the worst thing anybody can say to anyone. Amazingly irresponsible wrong speech, even for you.

User avatar
No_Mind
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:12 pm
Location: India

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by No_Mind » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:55 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:37 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:11 am

Who are you to say we are giving bad advice?
A garden variety alcoholic in recovery who has gotten help from other people to solve his problem. A guy who has heard even one iota of the heap of scientific research about addiction.

But I don't need to be either of those to tell you, your now moderator-deleted "advice": Telling an alcoholic they don't have a disease and can continue drinking normally is just about the worst thing anybody can say to anyone. Amazingly irresponsible wrong speech, even for you.
Alcoholism is not a disease .. it is a choice. Just as smoking is not a disease .. it is a choice.

In my own experience an alcoholic can return to social drinking.

I have noted now that my post has been deleted. And there is no good reason for it. At times moderators can be unusually daft.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 6241
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:11 pm

Those of us in recovery from alcohol have a saying. Once a cucumber becomes a pickle, it can no longer go back to being a cucumber.We have pickled ourselves. There's no going back.

I am an alcoholic and have long term sobriety free from from alcohol. I work with others who are struggling and on the verge of death due to there alcoholism. In my experience I tried over and over and over, for many years, to drink like a normal person. It never happened for me. It never happened for the people I have worked with. It never happened for those who have already drunk themselves to death. I have never seen it done.

If an alcoholic wishes to be free from alcohol for good, such as oncereturner has said, over and over on this thread, then to tell him that it would be OK to return to drinking after a period of time is almost certainly signing his death warrant.

If one wants to give advice then give advice on complete abstinence. That is what is being sought by oncereturner, not how he may be able to drink again in the future .

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

User avatar
No_Mind
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 4:12 pm
Location: India

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by No_Mind » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:14 pm

bodom wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:11 pm
Those of us in recovery from alcohol have a saying. Once a cucumber becomes a pickle, it can no longer go back to being a cucumber. I am an alcoholic and have long term sobriety free from from alcohol.

I work with others who are struggling and on the verge of death due to there alcoholism. In my experience I trued over and over and over, for many years, to drink like a normal drinker. It never happened for me. It never happened for the people I have worked with. It never happened for those who have already drunk themselves to death. I have never seen it done.

If an alcoholic wishes to be free from alcohol for good, such as oncereturner has done, over and over on this thread, then to tell someone that it would be OK to return to drinking after a period of time is almost certainly signing his death warrant.

If one wants to give advice then give advice on complete abstinence. That is what is being sought by oncereturner, not how he may be able to drink again in the future .

:namaste:
I never wrote that. I wrote about my experience
Late to this topic .. I drank a pint of whiskey daily for five years in my twenties and gave it up. I still drink an occasional peg but with friends (birthday and such)

Alcoholism is not a disease and alcoholic can return to social drinking.
I should have written "In my experience alcoholism is not a disease and alcoholic can return to social drinking."

That does not warranty that the whole 350 word post be deleted. Those words could have been added or that line deleted.

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

User avatar
Sam Vara
Posts: 4298
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:42 pm
Location: Sussex, U.K.

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by Sam Vara » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:47 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:55 pm
dharmacorps wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:37 pm
No_Mind wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:11 am

Who are you to say we are giving bad advice?
A garden variety alcoholic in recovery who has gotten help from other people to solve his problem. A guy who has heard even one iota of the heap of scientific research about addiction.

But I don't need to be either of those to tell you, your now moderator-deleted "advice": Telling an alcoholic they don't have a disease and can continue drinking normally is just about the worst thing anybody can say to anyone. Amazingly irresponsible wrong speech, even for you.
Alcoholism is not a disease .. it is a choice. Just as smoking is not a disease .. it is a choice.

In my own experience an alcoholic can return to social drinking.

I have noted now that my post has been deleted. And there is no good reason for it. At times moderators can be unusually daft.

:namaste:
I will raise with the other moderators the issue of offering advice on issues of health and addiction, or where a specialist knowledge may be required in order to prevent harm.

In the mean time, could people please refrain from personalised attacks? They don't help.

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 6241
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:43 pm

No_Mind wrote:Alcoholism is not a disease and alcoholic can return to social drinking.

I should have written "In my experience alcoholism is not a disease and alcoholic can return to social drinking."

That does not warranty that the whole 350 word post be deleted. Those words could have been added or that line deleted.

:namaste:
Hi no-mind.

Telling an alcoholic seeking help from alcohol that they can someday return to normal drinking is very dangerous advice. And at the least it is encouraging someone to break the fifth precept. Unacceptable on a Buddhist forum.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:02 am

bodom wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:11 pm
Those of us in recovery from alcohol have a saying. Once a cucumber becomes a pickle, it can no longer go back to being a cucumber.We have pickled ourselves. There's no going back.

I am an alcoholic and have long term sobriety free from from alcohol. I work with others who are struggling and on the verge of death due to there alcoholism. In my experience I tried over and over and over, for many years, to drink like a normal person. It never happened for me. It never happened for the people I have worked with. It never happened for those who have already drunk themselves to death. I have never seen it done.

If an alcoholic wishes to be free from alcohol for good, such as oncereturner has said, over and over on this thread, then to tell him that it would be OK to return to drinking after a period of time is almost certainly signing his death warrant.

If one wants to give advice then give advice on complete abstinence. That is what is being sought by oncereturner, not how he may be able to drink again in the future .

:namaste:
I agree, despite my determination, and all willpower, I drank a lot of beer. Quite remember how many. I can't even tell why, it happened. It's obvious, that I shouldn't drink a drop of beer rest of my life. One drink, and everything starts again. It's impossible to do it on my own, just like the doctor and Bodom said. It's a disease, doctor said the same as Bodom, he didn't see anyone to do it on his own. I've already informed my boss that I have to go to "medical examination ". I don't like to go into futile discussions, whether it's a disease or not, it is. I want to regain my health, I will do my best to get into rehab. There's no option, no choice, however I like my job, but health is foremost. It's not my job to manage work, boss will do this. It's very likely I will not lose my job, because I'm considered as a good workforce, they need me. I'd like to recover and do my job as a healthy person, and of course I don't want to die. I guess they don't want it too. It's not about keeping precepts, it's about life or death. Managers still don't know what is coming, but again if they want they can rearrange workforce, as it's a big company. Everyone can suffer from health issues. By the way, they are responsible ruining my life, burdening me with impossible deadlines and stress. And additcion ran out of my control.

I will go to addiction specialist, it's the most important now, to get help at rehab.

:anjali:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 18 guests