Buddhism and alcohol

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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Stiphan
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by Stiphan » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:57 pm

Alcohol is so disgusting and harmful as to be beyond belief. I've only tried a couple of glasses of a few beverages, just to try it, the taste was terrible, except wine. Overall, I've drunk less than 20 glasses of alcohol in my life, all in my teens before becoming a Buddhist.

Drugs are even worse, and I've not even touched them.

Habits and addictions are difficult to break, but it's worth trying as these things are so bad and harmful, beyond imagination. Not just that, you have to pay for these harmful substances! Avoid cigarettes too!

auto
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by auto » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:15 pm

Stiphan wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:57 pm
Alcohol is so disgusting and harmful as to be beyond belief. I've only tried a couple of glasses of a few beverages, just to try it, the taste was terrible, except wine. Overall, I've drunk less than 20 glasses of alcohol in my life, all in my teens before becoming a Buddhist.

Drugs are even worse, and I've not even touched them.

Habits and addictions are difficult to break, but it's worth trying as these things are so bad and harmful, beyond imagination. Not just that, you have to pay for these harmful substances! Avoid cigarettes too!
The bad and harmful what you experience when trying alcohol is like first bodily reaction to cold water. Just get over the repulsiveness and you have different sensation what is not repulsiveness but stabile wave like experience, bliss.

To be able to drink fully drunk like lose conscience is like bodily reaction to hot water, its inviting and can't stop drinking anymore to the point of not want to move the body unless it is hot water: alcohol, mates, drugs, dangerous behavior etc.
-------------------
When you will see, have knowledge about craving, it is then internal burn and you would know yourself that adding more fuel like alcohol doesn't take the craving away. Therefore you have repulsiveness. If you don't see craving then you can't stop drinking till the end of not be able to use body.

Both variants being alcoholic or fully sober-never-drink alcohol are same weight on a scale. There are other layers in play, what decide where you end at.
Over time the repulsiveness to alcohol disappear, think of it as losing merit to know the subtle.

binocular
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:25 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:01 pm
What I am saying is these superficial changes are a distraction from real change/recovery. Alcoholics do not "get better" by changing jobs or partners. They may even quit drinking for a time, but the inner problem is still there and will thus come back, usually worse. Anyone with any substantial experience in recovery, talking to and connecting with addicts would know this. One would also know the damage that can come from indulging alcoholics in their habit of attributing all their problems to outside factors and never facing themselves, the true problem.
How convenient for the one who gives advice to alcoholics!
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:50 am

binocular wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:57 am

It is not the case that a person can handle _any_ amount of difficulty, without this adversely affecting their wellbeing and productivity.

Some people, when they change jobs, get divorced, find another partner, move to another city etc. in fact do get better. Some don't, but some do. It's not prudent to dismiss the importance of external factors. They aren't everything, but they are not irrelevant either.

It is only in a very ideal, spiritual sense that a person should be able to handle any kind of difficulty calmly. The Buddha didn't have to work 12-hour shifts.

I think the actual problem that many addicts are caught up in is tunnel vision and black-and-white, either-or thinking. That is, they tend to think that the solution to their problem is either A, or B, but not perhaps C or D. They don't even consider that the solution to their problem might be a combination of A, B, C, and D.
I was at the doctor. I told him that my addiction is getting worse, however I didn't drink on the holiday. Now I drink only after work, because I feel very tired and sad. I don't need alcohol on weekend right now.

He said I shouldn't go to rehab, because it is just a temporary solution. The underlying causes will still exist, and I will relapse. I was surprised, because other doctors said to go to rehab.

He recommended AA. He also said I must change job,  this one is too stressful for me. He prescribed a lot of benzodiazepine.

In this debate I agree with Binocular. High stress levels lead to some kind of addictions for many people.

I'm even more confused, but I will go to AA. I will try to cure myself with rational thinking, herbs and meditation.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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bodom
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:25 am

This is not a debate. People are giving you advice to save your life. I have been through it and I can only tell you what worked for this hardcore addict and alcoholic after trying everything else. In the end you will make your own decisions how to go about it. Remember this though... A smart man learns from his own mistakes but a wise man learns from others. Take heed to all of our advice. Good luck.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

perkele
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by perkele » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:38 am

oncereturner wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:50 am
He prescribed a lot of benzodiazepine.
That is horrible to hear. I hope you can throw this shit far far away.
Have you tried so-called "non-alcoholic" beer (instead of stronger drinks), i.e. that which is not actually non-alcoholic, but contains about 0.5% alcohol? I don't know for sure, but I just imagine that if you'd try to use that honestly, I mean as a substitute, in order to cut down on any stronger alcoholic stuff that you would otherwise consume, perhaps that could be an improvement? The hop contained in beer (also in the "non-alcoholic" one) has a pleasent calming effect (which might outweigh the effect of the little alcohol contained in it). Much healthier for sure than f*** benzodiazepines.
Benzodiazepines destroy all willpower, turn brain into cotton wad and people into mindless zombies and idiots. They are only for the weak. Except maybe in a very short very controlled period of hardcore withdrawal. But how crazy to hand this stuff out for self-medication to someone struggling with alcohol addiction?

binocular
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:41 pm

bodom wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:25 am
This is not a debate.
It should be a discussion, though. People with a problem (such as people with an alcohol addiction) generally still want to be treated like people, and not as if their addiction is all they are or what defines them.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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bodom
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:10 pm

binocular wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:41 pm
bodom wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:25 am
This is not a debate.
It should be a discussion, though. People with a problem (such as people with an alcohol addiction) generally still want to be treated like people, and not as if their addiction is all they are or what defines them.
Hi Binocular

We have all given him our experience, strength and hope. Being a former alcoholic and heroin addict I already understand this. Nobody here has reduced him to nothing but an alcoholic so I'm really unsure as to what it is you mean.

This is the OP:
I feel very good, but next day is very bitter. Every morning I feel I'm going to die.I was in hospital 6 times related to toxication. I've already lost my self-control, I'm heavily addicted, doctor says I have 10 more years left at maximum. I'm 36. Without alcohol, I have no life, I feel depression.

Question is, to live with pain, mental illness, or die young with some joy?

I'm not sure you understand the seriousness of alcoholism and addiction. It truly is a life or death situation. I have been near death many times. I have had many friends who have died. I take this very serious and will give the advice that was given to me and I now give to others. No where did oncereturner say he feels like he is being reduced to nothing but a lowlife alcoholic and no where have I seem anyone do this to him. Oncereturner I apologize if you were made to feel this way. I have already shared with him my experience and hope for him. So again I don't know what your talking about here.

To oncereturner: I wish you nothing but the best man. You know what you need to do. It's up to you now. As the Buddha says he merely points the way.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

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bodom
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Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:22 pm

One of my favorite songs from my favorite band. I miss old In Flames.

I also agree with your posts. Benzo's are a bad bad idea. They are basically alcohol in a pill form.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

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oncereturner
Posts: 269
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Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:46 pm

perkele wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:38 am

That is horrible to hear. I hope you can throw this shit far far away.
Have you tried so-called "non-alcoholic" beer (instead of stronger drinks), i.e. that which is not actually non-alcoholic, but contains about 0.5% alcohol? I don't know for sure, but I just imagine that if you'd try to use that honestly, I mean as a substitute, in order to cut down on any stronger alcoholic stuff that you would otherwise consume, perhaps that could be an improvement?
I tried it without success. Actually I need only the alcohol witch is contained in the beer. I can only drink beer, other stronger liquors are really disgusting for me.
perkele wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:38 am
Benzodiazepines destroy all willpower, turn brain into cotton wad and people into mindless zombies and idiots. They are only for the weak. Except maybe in a very short very controlled period of hardcore withdrawal. But how crazy to hand this stuff out for self-medication to someone struggling with alcohol addiction?
It is crazy. At the psychiatric facility I met with a woman who was extremely anxious. Nurses didn't let her meet the doctor instantly, because he had another patient. She said she has no medicine, I asked her which kind of medicine she needs. The answer was benzo (xanax), so I gave her a pill. I always carry a lots of benzo with me. I couldn't stand to see this suffering. It turned out that she is on benzos for 20 years, and drinking as well. She was alright in 15 minutes. This doctor prescribed benzos for alcoholics.

Work is a madness too, I decided to change. Tomorrow I will go to an interview. If I will not succeed, next time or maybe another time I will change.

I don't like two hours of travelling each day. The major of the city decided to innovate the subway, so it's closed for some years. Traffic has become a nightmare. I'd like a job which is closer.

I hope this complex torture will somehow come to an end. I'm on it, I try to do my best.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

dharmacorps
Posts: 562
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:14 pm

Sad to hear Oncereturner, this doctor did one of the worst possible things by giving you benzos. I am horrified as a medical professional myself to think any doctor, anywhere would do that. I am so sorry that happened. Please stay away from the benzos, they will only make things worse. It is well known in the medical profession to NEVER give benzos to people with substance abuse issues.

Bodom-- thanks for your words on this thread. I also miss early In Flames like Clayman :)

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:22 pm

bodom wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:10 pm

Oncereturner I apologize if you were made to feel this way. I have already shared with him my experience and hope for him. So again I don't know what your talking about here.

To oncereturner: I wish you nothing but the best man. You know what you need to do. It's up to you now. As the Buddha says he merely points the way.

:namaste:
I feel that you actually help me a lot, thank you again. I drink less and take less benzos as well. My condition may not as wrong what you were experienced. I'm close to go down that road what you've been to.

Binocular and other members also help me a lot.

I'm very tired of work for now, I can't even think. Next week on my holiday I will think it over again. Rehab, self- help, or AA, I don't know now, but this must be stop immediately.

I'm gonna update you on my progress.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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bodom
Posts: 6241
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Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:26 pm

dharmacorps wrote:Bodom-- thanks for your words on this thread. I also miss early In Flames like Clayman :)
One of the best metal records ever and the pioneers of the Gothenburg metal movement. Amazing to see so many In Flames fans on one thread!

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 6241
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:27 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:22 pm
bodom wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:10 pm

Oncereturner I apologize if you were made to feel this way. I have already shared with him my experience and hope for him. So again I don't know what your talking about here.

To oncereturner: I wish you nothing but the best man. You know what you need to do. It's up to you now. As the Buddha says he merely points the way.

:namaste:
I feel that you actually help me a lot, thank you again. I drink less and take less benzos as well. My condition may not as wrong what you were experienced. I'm close to go down that road what you've been to.

Binocular and other members also help me a lot.

I'm very tired of work for now, I can't even think. Next week on my holiday I will think it over again. Rehab, self- help, or AA, I don't know now, but this must be stop immediately.

I'm gonna update you on my progress.
Just keep doing your best and everything else will fall into place.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

binocular
Posts: 5636
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:19 am

oncereturner wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:46 pm
I tried it without success. Actually I need only the alcohol witch is contained in the beer. I can only drink beer, other stronger liquors are really disgusting for me.
What food are you eating? Are you getting enough nutrients? If you have poor nutrition, perhaps the craving for beer is a way that your body tries to compensate for it.
Try to eat wholesome food, regularly, and enough of it.

As for the long commute to work: find something to do in that time, such as reading, listening to podcasts/Dhamma talks, planning your time.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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