Buddhism and alcohol

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
dharmacorps
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:24 pm

binocular wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:10 pm
dharmacorps wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:32 pm
If they are able to stop drinking at 2 drinks they have something alcoholics don't.
The problem is that this kind of view can be an example of glorifying "normal drinkers" and stigmatizing alcoholics.
No, that would only be true if one didn't understand addiction issues and misinterprets what is being discussed.

James Tan
Posts: 544
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 1:26 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by James Tan » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:31 am

:anjali:
Last edited by James Tan on Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
binocular
Posts: 5281
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:26 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:24 pm
No, that would only be true if one didn't understand addiction issues and misinterprets what is being discussed.
You're just illustrating my point.

apophenia
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:46 am

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by apophenia » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:02 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:48 pm
I failed, it's game over. I give up the fight against Mara. This demon is invincible. I go to samsara, in my next life I will succeed.
This is a very good realization. You admit that you cannot control your drinking. This is very fertile ground. This is step one: "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, and that our lives had become unmanagable."

You seem to resist the idea of giving AA a good try. Maybe you can read the Big Book and the Twelve and Twelve. It's no substitute for meetings, but it might still help. You can read them for free on the internet.

Read this: it's the first step in the 12/12, a very short read. https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_step1.pdf

If you are interested, read this: https://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/alcoholics-anonymous
If you find it boring or difficult, read the personal stories at the end.

:hug:

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:44 am

Garrib wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:48 am
oncereturner wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:48 pm
I failed, it's game over. I give up the fight against Mara. This demon is invincible. I go to samsara, in my next life I will succeed.
wrong choice my friend!!!! Take it one day at a time.

You know how meditation teachers always talk about the breath - it doesn't matter how many times your attention slips away, what matters is that whenever you recognize that your mind is wandering, you bring it back to the breath. At the same time, your goal is always to KEEP the attention on the breath (so you can develop better mindfulness and hopefully sometime: enter jhana). Perhaps the same is true for alcoholism and other addictions. No matter how many times you slip up, as soon as you recognize your error, you brings yourself BACK to your commitment to get sober. If you keep doing this, and keep up with your intention and effort, then hopefully you will reach the point that you are actually sober.
I use breathing techniques for relaxation and sleep. Sometimes the breathing gets out of control. In crowded places I start coughing. I try to hold breath, but I can't stop it. On the crowded bus, I often feel sick, and sweat. When practice breathing, I suddenly start coughing. The panic is exhausting every morning.

The office is crowded too. I breathe in what others breathe out. Coughing again. Now I have a medicine against it, hope it will help. We should fill the lung with fresh air.

I've seen a video, monks meditating and chanting next to the street somewhere in India. Their place was noisy and polluted. It's possible to achieve peace of mind in these circumstances, but I guess it takes practice.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:17 pm

bodom wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:47 pm

Hi oncereturner

Unfortunately there is no such thing as controlled drinking for an alcoholic. It sounds like a great idea and literally all alcoholics have tried it including me. This is clearly a sign that you have a major problem. Most people do not have to worry about controlled drinking. They can take the drink or leave it. Not an alcoholic for One drink is too many and a thousand is never enough. There must be complete abstinence from alcohol.

If you want to try to reduce your intake until stopping completely then by all means do what you have to do, but Please do not buy into the illusion that you can control your drinking because it is obvious that you cannot.

This is the great obsession of every alcoholic: that they can somehow, someday, control there drinking again. It doesn't happen. Many drink themselves into the grave trying.

:namaste:
Hello Bodom

I see. Last week I was sick, laying in bed with fever.
I planned to go to AA and ask for help at rehab, but on Monday I had to work 12 hours. It was a disaster. Every day it was overtime.

Maybe next week will be easier. I found out that rehab and AA is at the same place, which is near. I can do it at the same time, if they don't burden me with overtime.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:08 pm

apophenia wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:02 pm

This is a very good realization. You admit that you cannot control your drinking. This is very fertile ground. This is step one: "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, and that our lives had become unmanagable."

You seem to resist the idea of giving AA a good try. Maybe you can read the Big Book and the Twelve and Twelve. It's no substitute for meetings, but it might still help. You can read them for free on the internet.

Read this: it's the first step in the 12/12, a very short read. https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_step1.pdf

If you are interested, read this: https://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/alcoholics-anonymous
If you find it boring or difficult, read the personal stories at the end.

:hug:
Hi. I was at the AA meeting, it was disappointing, just like the previous one. They admitted losing control, but don't provide a solution.

The rehab staff didn't care about me. It's not easy to get in. I'm about to find a way to enter a rehabilitation program.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

auto
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by auto » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:48 pm


apophenia
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:46 am

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by apophenia » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:37 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:08 pm
apophenia wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:02 pm

This is a very good realization. You admit that you cannot control your drinking. This is very fertile ground. This is step one: "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, and that our lives had become unmanagable."

You seem to resist the idea of giving AA a good try. Maybe you can read the Big Book and the Twelve and Twelve. It's no substitute for meetings, but it might still help. You can read them for free on the internet.

Read this: it's the first step in the 12/12, a very short read. https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_step1.pdf

If you are interested, read this: https://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/alcoholics-anonymous
If you find it boring or difficult, read the personal stories at the end.

:hug:
Hi. I was at the AA meeting, it was disappointing, just like the previous one. They admitted losing control, but don't provide a solution.

The rehab staff didn't care about me. It's not easy to get in. I'm about to find a way to enter a rehabilitation program.
Hey oncereturner, what a shame that the AA meeting you went to was disappointing. Can you go to a different meeting? Do you have a lot of choice in the area where you live? I'm very lucky in that there are around 30 meetings a week where I live. If you don't have a lot of options, you could try attending an online meeting. There are online meetings both for AA and for Refuge Recovery, I think.

Normally, in AA-land, the steps are the solution. You don't regain control over the amount of alchohol you consume, but you solve the problem by giving up the fight, ie. abstinence, and a "spiritual solution", ie. the steps - basically a combination of moral inventory, making amends, meditation and/or prayer, journaling, and service/helping others. But it's not a quick fix, it does take some time to work the steps, and it does take a daily (or almost daily) commitment. For me, this consists in meditation, some prayer/intention-setting/metta, journaling (aka 10th step), and ideally a meeting or some form of contact with another alcoholic/sponsor/sponsee. But I'm much happier, much more equanimous, kinder toward myself and others, and sober. (As opposed to a mixture of irritable, discontent, resentful, and drunk or hungover.)

:heart:

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:23 pm

apophenia wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:37 pm
oncereturner wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:08 pm
apophenia wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:02 pm

This is a very good realization. You admit that you cannot control your drinking. This is very fertile ground. This is step one: "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, and that our lives had become unmanagable."

You seem to resist the idea of giving AA a good try. Maybe you can read the Big Book and the Twelve and Twelve. It's no substitute for meetings, but it might still help. You can read them for free on the internet.

Read this: it's the first step in the 12/12, a very short read. https://www.aa.org/assets/en_US/en_step1.pdf

If you are interested, read this: https://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/alcoholics-anonymous
If you find it boring or difficult, read the personal stories at the end.

:hug:
Hi. I was at the AA meeting, it was disappointing, just like the previous one. They admitted losing control, but don't provide a solution.

The rehab staff didn't care about me. It's not easy to get in. I'm about to find a way to enter a rehabilitation program.
Hey oncereturner, what a shame that the AA meeting you went to was disappointing. Can you go to a different meeting? Do you have a lot of choice in the area where you live? I'm very lucky in that there are around 30 meetings a week where I live. If you don't have a lot of options, you could try attending an online meeting. There are online meetings both for AA and for Refuge Recovery, I think.

Normally, in AA-land, the steps are the solution. You don't regain control over the amount of alchohol you consume, but you solve the problem by giving up the fight, ie. abstinence, and a "spiritual solution", ie. the steps - basically a combination of moral inventory, making amends, meditation and/or prayer, journaling, and service/helping others. But it's not a quick fix, it does take some time to work the steps, and it does take a daily (or almost daily) commitment. For me, this consists in meditation, some prayer/intention-setting/metta, journaling (aka 10th step), and ideally a meeting or some form of contact with another alcoholic/sponsor/sponsee. But I'm much happier, much more equanimous, kinder toward myself and others, and sober. (As opposed to a mixture of irritable, discontent, resentful, and drunk or hungover.)

:heart:
AA meetings really let me down. The easiest way is simply not to drink. I tried and failed a hundred times. I try again, but I'm afraid it's too late.
Entering a rehabilitation center is not easy. I must find a way to get in.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

dharmacorps
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:29 pm

oncereturner, can you share why AA meetings are a let down for you?

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:32 am

dharmacorps wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:29 pm
oncereturner, can you share why AA meetings are a let down for you?
Of course. Facing the truth is hard, they tell stories about their suffering. They try and fail, just like me. Some of them beated the addiction, but they don't tell us how.
After the meeting I was anxious, this is maybe an incurable disease. The doctor also said there's no cure. Almost every illness is curable but this is not. I think this lets me down.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

denise
Posts: 493
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:56 pm
Location: U.S.A.

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by denise » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:17 pm

the "cure" is don't take the next drink.....you are allergic....not everyone is allergic to the stuff...you are...can you imagine having this monkey off your back? stop telling yourself it can't be done...you know you want to be well....people here can only read about your struggle....you have to do the work....ok....am stepping down off the soapbox....and of course no offense dear Oncereturner....d :heart:

User avatar
binocular
Posts: 5281
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:22 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:32 am
Of course. Facing the truth is hard, they tell stories about their suffering. They try and fail, just like me. Some of them beated the addiction, but they don't tell us how.
After the meeting I was anxious, this is maybe an incurable disease. The doctor also said there's no cure. Almost every illness is curable but this is not. I think this lets me down.
I think it helps to understand that the doctors and the other medical staff in hospitals and recovery programs and similar are there to do just two things: 1. prescribe and give medications, and 2. facilitate some conversations with patients about the topic of addiction. That is all.

Addiction is incurable in the sense that doctors can't do much to stop a person from having the addiction. With many diseases, the doctors can do things and the disease goes away, but addiction is not like that.

This is why when one goes to seek help for an addiction, one shouldn't go there the same way one goes to get help for, say, a fungal infection or a broken leg. If one has a fungal infection, one goes to the doctor, is prescribed a medication, applies the medication, and that's that. With a broken leg, one lets the doctors fix it, and that's that. But many chronic diseases and addictions are not like that. Think, for example, how much work either type 1 diabetes or type 2 diabetes require from the patient. A person with either type of diabetes can't just put themselves into the hands of the doctors to do all the work of helping them or curing them. Instead, the patient has to do most of the work themselves in managing the disease, every day.

So when one seeks help for addiction, it might be a good idea to go to the doctors not with the expectation that the doctors will cure one, but only with the hope that the doctors could be able to help one overcome the addiction.
Basically, you expect that you will do the vast majority of the work, and the doctors are there just to help a bit.

dharmacorps
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:31 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:32 am
dharmacorps wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:29 pm
oncereturner, can you share why AA meetings are a let down for you?
Of course. Facing the truth is hard, they tell stories about their suffering. They try and fail, just like me. Some of them beated the addiction, but they don't tell us how.
After the meeting I was anxious, this is maybe an incurable disease. The doctor also said there's no cure. Almost every illness is curable but this is not. I think this lets me down.
You're having the reaction you are supposed to have when you start-- facing the truth is hard. It hurts. Stay with that-- don't shrink away from it. Its only with persistence that you can begin to listen to what is being said at the meetings. Read the big book. It will begin to sink in. Be willing to admit you don't know anything about how to fix this and every effort you have made to do so up until now has failed. Be willing to consider other people probably have succeeded. Listen to those who have solved their problem with alcohol. Leave your pride and self involvement to the side and just listen. There is the message of the solution there you are probably just too wrapped up in yourself right now to hear it. That's how it is for people new in AA.

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:31 pm

Another hard working day, I had to deal with enraged, mad clients. I feel like projectile vomiting and despair.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

User avatar
LG2V
Posts: 211
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:40 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by LG2V » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:20 am

Good luck on your journey. :twothumbsup: You have my respect.

Alcohol, who needs the stuff anyway? It burns when you drink it and makes you sick and miserable the next day. Not to mention the other problems that come with it. I stopped drinking nearly 6 years ago and I haven't regretted it.
Here are some excellent sites for giving free Dana (Click-Based Donation):
http://freerice.comhttp://greatergood.com/www.ripple.orgwww.thenonprofits.com

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:45 pm

I was in the hospital asking for help. I talked to a doctor, and described my problem, heavy alcohol addiction. He said go to the emergency station, if I have delirium, they will accept me as a patient, so I went there.

At the emergency station they told me they only accept non conscious patients, and ambulance cars. I was told to go to a foundation, which is only open in working hours. As I work every day I can't go there. And I need a referee to get into the hospital. Doctor told me at the local mental facility, in his opinion I shouldn't go to rehab and I was not given a referee.

This is an eastern European nightmare, but I don't give up and find a way to get into the rehabilitation center.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

User avatar
rightviewftw
Posts: 1067
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:50 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by rightviewftw » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:35 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:45 pm
I was in the hospital asking for help. I talked to a doctor, and described my problem, heavy alcohol addiction. He said go to the emergency station, if I have delirium, they will accept me as a patient, so I went there.

At the emergency station they told me they only accept non conscious patients, and ambulance cars. I was told to go to a foundation, which is only open in working hours. As I work every day I can't go there. And I need a referee to get into the hospital. Doctor told me at the local mental facility, in his opinion I shouldn't go to rehab and I was not given a referee.

This is an eastern European nightmare, but I don't give up and find a way to get into the rehabilitation center.
Idk enough to comment on your particular situation but sure hope you get twice the help you need.
Do you practice Satipatthana meditation?
How to Destroy any addiction
How to Meditate: Satipatthana Mahasi
Медитация Сатипаттхана Випассана
How To Develop Factors of Enlightenment & Perceptions
Ven. Kutukurunde Nanananda's (Developing Metta)
Tyranny of Words - An Introduction to General Semantics
Dhammatalks categorized by topic @ video.sirimangalo.org/
Ledi Sayadaw's Anapana Dipani (Samatha) @ ffmt.fr/articles/maitres/LediS/anapana-dipani.ledi-sayadaw.pdf
Parallel Dhammapada @ myweb.ncku.edu.tw/~lsn46/tipitaka/sutta/khuddaka/dhammapada/dhp-contrast-reading/dhp-contrast-reading-en/

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:55 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:35 pm
oncereturner wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:45 pm
I was in the hospital asking for help. I talked to a doctor, and described my problem, heavy alcohol addiction. He said go to the emergency station, if I have delirium, they will accept me as a patient, so I went there.

At the emergency station they told me they only accept non conscious patients, and ambulance cars. I was told to go to a foundation, which is only open in working hours. As I work every day I can't go there. And I need a referee to get into the hospital. Doctor told me at the local mental facility, in his opinion I shouldn't go to rehab and I was not given a referee.

This is an eastern European nightmare, but I don't give up and find a way to get into the rehabilitation center.
Idk enough to comment on your particular situation but sure hope you get twice the help you need.
Do you practice Satipatthana meditation?
I don't exactly know what is Satipatthana meditation. Only dhamma can help me now.

:namaste:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 51 guests