Buddhism and alcohol

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:34 pm

binocular wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:32 pm
But can you go to another (EU) country and get treatment there?
No. It's not USA. I have a free medical care only in Hungary. All European countries are separated.

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:01 am

I'd like to live in the USA in a monastery. I like cultural diversity and freedom.
Bartók Béla was a Hungarian worldwide known musician, who emigrated to the US. A lot of Hungarians fleed to the US after the world war. We lost all of our educated people.

Now the situation is the same. Intelligent people try to escape from this country to western Europe. Ten percent of the remaining population is alcoholic or mad. I'm afraid our country and culture will disappear soon.

If you try to imagine this little eastern European country, just think about Kenya or Congo.

I'm about to forget my own language. This language is unique even in Europe because it is not indoeuropean. I don't even understand the language of the neighboring countries. It is very complicated and beautiful, nobody understands it for sure except us. This is the last remaining language of the Ural mountains.

I can tell that it is impossible to learn this language.it is so complicated, only the most intelligent people can use it perfectly.

It was very hard for me learning English. I learned basic English, and soon realized that American people talk in a different way. It will take me a lifetime to learn your language. It is beautiful. It is hard for me to understand you sometimes.

There is one small Buddhist monastery in this country, which is in the neighborhood. I can go to a solitary cell, for a day or a week, but they ask for money. I guess it's worth the money.

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binocular
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:46 am

oncereturner wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:01 am
Now the situation is the same. Intelligent people try to escape from this country to western Europe. Ten percent of the remaining population is alcoholic or mad. I'm afraid our country and culture will disappear soon.
I'm in Slovenia. Back in the 1980's when I was going to school, we were learning about the different education systems in European countries, and I remember I thought the Hungarian was the harshest, the most competitive. If I remember correctly, the system back then was a person's life was pretty much decided upon when they entered primary education at the age of six. There were different kinds of primary education, and having completed some of them, a person could not get into college afterwards, not even change courses.
So it doesn't come as a surprise that such extreme competitiveness would reflect on society, and negatively at that.

I'm saying -- don't blame yourself for all your troubles, because some of them are not your fault. Although you should take responsibility for your life, by all means.
I can tell that it is impossible to learn this language.it is so complicated, only the most intelligent people can use it perfectly.
We get Hungarian television here, so I can hear the language (and all foreign programmes are synchronized -- while we have almost exclusively subtitles in Slovene).
It was very hard for me learning English. I learned basic English, and soon realized that American people talk in a different way. It will take me a lifetime to learn your language. It is beautiful. It is hard for me to understand you sometimes.

I'll make more effort to keep that in mind.
There is one small Buddhist monastery in this country, which is in the neighborhood. I can go to a solitary cell, for a day or a week, but they ask for money. I guess it's worth the money.
Then try that. If nothing else, it will be a new experience that you can learn from.

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binocular
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:01 am

Here's another suggestion:

Join a club or an association of people that go on trips together to interesting locations in your country, usually by bus. Such clubs usually have a yearly calendar of trips posted on the internet, so you can see which one is most to your liking. There is usually a membership fee, but the whole price of each trip is usually much less than if one were to go alone or with a small group of friends. And one doesn't have to worry about transportation and organization.

This way you'll be out in the fresh air, you'll see more of your beautiful country, you'll meet new people, and you'll have some things to look forward to and plan for.

:smile:

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:24 pm

Oh my goodness. I met with my intelligent and educated friend. The goal was the meeting was that he will convince me not to drink or help me to get into hospital/rehab. Instead of this the following things happened.

I was sober but he was already drunken. He bought me a drink then we both get drunken. He knows dhamma but doesn't understand it.

He also told me how to commit suicide. Of course I'm the one to blame again, because I'm responsible of my own deeds.

But I guess buying drink to a depressed alcoholic and even tell me how to commit suicide painlessly is a foolish or even a criminal act.

I must break our friendship, I'm so sad. I will never meet him again.

It is written "A little knowledge of dhamma hurts the fool, because his mind will break apart. " This happened to him.

I will trust no one, only DW members.

Tomorrow I WILL go to the hospital and ask for help.

auto
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by auto » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:14 pm

When you see, hear.. alcohol then you get affected, drinking it will get affected the body, then drinking more you lose your head and instincts rise and take control of you.
Alcohol is the valid object of your heart through what instincts in belly try to influence you to release themselves.

You can get rid of that object from heart by reasoning. Reasoning, if correct, puts things in movement and open the heart. It takes a long time. You will drink many more times, but eventually you reach to the place where you can't overdrink yourself and instincts can't come out. And furthermore you can get rid of it just by seeing drinking in reflection in your mind will be enough to get rid of the path what leads to alcohol this moment or time.

You are feeding the demons in you and letting them out. They won't come out without your doing. Demons need cultivate much power so that you would start act how they want so give some credit to them for their effort.

What kind of help makes sense to you. If going to hospital makes sense to you then go.

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:11 pm

auto wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:14 pm
When you see, hear.. alcohol then you get affected, drinking it will get affected the body, then drinking more you lose your head and instincts rise and take control of you.
Alcohol is the valid object of your heart through what instincts in belly try to influence you to release themselves.

You can get rid of that object from heart by reasoning. Reasoning, if correct, puts things in movement and open the heart. It takes a long time. You will drink many more times, but eventually you reach to the place where you can't overdrink yourself and instincts can't come out. And furthermore you can get rid of it just by seeing drinking in reflection in your mind will be enough to get rid of the path what leads to alcohol this moment or time.

You are feeding the demons in you and letting them out. They won't come out without your doing. Demons need cultivate much power so that you would start act how they want so give some credit to them for their effort.

What kind of help makes sense to you. If going to hospital makes sense to you then go.
Alcohol took control over my mind. I have lost all my willpower. It is a self sustaining addiction. I know that it does harm to me, and reasoning has no effect anymore.

auto
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by auto » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:59 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:11 pm
Alcohol took control over my mind. I have lost all my willpower. It is a self sustaining addiction. I know that it does harm to me, and reasoning has no effect anymore.
meditate, practice dharma: it will make the bad consequences, suffering worse and the changes are that you get sick before you overdrink and lose control.

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:34 pm

Garrib wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:51 am

Bhikkhu Samahita recently posted a video in which he responds to a question about Marijuana addiction. He also included some words on alcohol addiction which might be useful (see link below) - it is very dangerous, as you know. Overcoming addictions is hard work, but it is worth it - and there is joy on the other side. Good luck my friend! You can do it!!!

[html]
Thank you, I watched it twice. He mentioned a point of no return. I hope I haven't already crossed that point.

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:38 pm

Another shocking documentary.

[html]
[/html]

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:07 pm

I'm sober for 4 days.

perkele
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by perkele » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:54 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:07 pm
I'm sober for 4 days.
That's great to hear! Wishing you all the strength and confidence to carry on!

:buddha1: Silanisamsa-Jātaka

(Too bad they don't have it translated in Hungarian, this auld English is hard to read...)

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:03 pm

perkele wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:54 pm
oncereturner wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:07 pm
I'm sober for 4 days.
That's great to hear! Wishing you all the strength and confidence to carry on!

:buddha1: Silanisamsa-Jātaka

(Too bad they don't have it translated in Hungarian, this auld English is hard to read...)
Thank you, I understand the point. Reading is a lot more easier than expressing my thoughts. Olden English is no problem for me, I can guess what each word means, by reading the whole sentence.

I have only one real friend, who doesn't know anything about dhamma, but he has an inherent capability to tell right from wrong.

He says I can escape from the alcoholic madness, if I change job. He is right, hordes of enraged clients burden me with their problems. I need a stress free environment.

Going to hospital and rehab and then coming back to this job, is a guaranteed failure. So I try to change. I was in hospital 4x, since I accepted this job.

dharmacorps
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:21 pm

The job isn't the problem, just like the girl wasn't the problem. The problem is you.

There are no stress free environments, jobs or anything else. You're on a Buddhist forum so I am sure you know that on some level.

Many alcoholics die doing exactly what you are saying--managing their alcoholism by having the "right job" or "right girl" or whatever external circumstance. Its a well trodden path familiar to any alcoholic-- and one littered with the bodies of alcoholics too proud to get help.

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bodom
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:15 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:21 pm
The job isn't the problem, just like the girl wasn't the problem. The problem is you.

There are no stress free environments, jobs or anything else. You're on a Buddhist forum so I am sure you know that on some level.

Many alcoholics die doing exactly what you are saying--managing their alcoholism by having the "right job" or "right girl" or whatever external circumstance. Its a well trodden path familiar to any alcoholic-- and one littered with the bodies of alcoholics too proud to get help.
:goodpost:

I did just that for years and years and years wasting my life and always saying "I will kick tomorrow." For most tomorrow will never come.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


Ultimately, your meditation involves sustaining the knowing, followed by continuous letting go as you experience sense objects through the eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body and mind. It involves just this much and there is no need to make anything more out of it.

- Ajahn Chah

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binocular
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:12 am

oncereturner wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:03 pm
He says I can escape from the alcoholic madness, if I change job. He is right, hordes of enraged clients burden me with their problems.
That may very well be the case. However, it's not wise to quit a job unless one already has a new one.
For starters, it's usually prudent to develop new skills on the current job. There are many resources for how to deal with (problematic) clients on the internet, in libraries, one can attend seminars and workshops for this. People skills are worth investing in, as one needs them in most lines of work anyway.

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:36 pm

binocular wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:12 am
oncereturner wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:03 pm
He says I can escape from the alcoholic madness, if I change job. He is right, hordes of enraged clients burden me with their problems.
That may very well be the case. However, it's not wise to quit a job unless one already has a new one.
For starters, it's usually prudent to develop new skills on the current job. There are many resources for how to deal with (problematic) clients on the internet, in libraries, one can attend seminars and workshops for this. People skills are worth investing in, as one needs them in most lines of work anyway.
I think i have the skills to manage clients. Their problems are solved quickly. Everyone is happy with my work, except for me. My friend said that I should search for a new job, while I'm still working here. Just as you said. Lowering the stress level is useful.

Bodom and Dharmacorps is right again. Learning at the university was very stressful, and then I had stressful jobs, and so on, but I didn't drink.

The problem is only me and my addiction. The more stress I have to cope with, the more alcohol I need. Next week I will meet my doctor and we will discuss this problem. I will ask for help.

dharmacorps
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:27 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:36 pm
Bodom and Dharmacorps is right again. Learning at the university was very stressful, and then I had stressful jobs, and so on, but I didn't drink.

The problem is only me and my addiction. The more stress I have to cope with, the more alcohol I need. Next week I will meet my doctor and we will discuss this problem. I will ask for help.
This is still wrong thinking attributing your drinking to stress as if somehow the stressors weren't there you wouldn't drink-- which isn't true. The problem is inside you, not the outside world. Where ever you go, there you are.

Believing these kinds of thoughts makes it easier for you to continue to not take responsibility for your drinking and behavior, and thus prevent you from getting sober.

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binocular
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:57 am

dharmacorps wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:27 pm
This is still wrong thinking attributing your drinking to stress as if somehow the stressors weren't there you wouldn't drink-- which isn't true. The problem is inside you, not the outside world. Where ever you go, there you are.
It is not the case that a person can handle _any_ amount of difficulty, without this adversely affecting their wellbeing and productivity.

Some people, when they change jobs, get divorced, find another partner, move to another city etc. in fact do get better. Some don't, but some do. It's not prudent to dismiss the importance of external factors. They aren't everything, but they are not irrelevant either.

It is only in a very ideal, spiritual sense that a person should be able to handle any kind of difficulty calmly. The Buddha didn't have to work 12-hour shifts.

I think the actual problem that many addicts are caught up in is tunnel vision and black-and-white, either-or thinking. That is, they tend to think that the solution to their problem is either A, or B, but not perhaps C or D. They don't even consider that the solution to their problem might be a combination of A, B, C, and D.

dharmacorps
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:01 pm

What I am saying is these superficial changes are a distraction from real change/recovery. Alcoholics do not "get better" by changing jobs or partners. They may even quit drinking for a time, but the inner problem is still there and will thus come back, usually worse. Anyone with any substantial experience in recovery, talking to and connecting with addicts would know this. One would also know the damage that can come from indulging alcoholics in their habit of attributing all their problems to outside factors and never facing themselves, the true problem.

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