Buddhism and alcohol

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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dharmacorps
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:29 pm

oncereturner, can you share why AA meetings are a let down for you?

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:32 am

dharmacorps wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:29 pm
oncereturner, can you share why AA meetings are a let down for you?
Of course. Facing the truth is hard, they tell stories about their suffering. They try and fail, just like me. Some of them beated the addiction, but they don't tell us how.
After the meeting I was anxious, this is maybe an incurable disease. The doctor also said there's no cure. Almost every illness is curable but this is not. I think this lets me down.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

denise
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by denise » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:17 pm

the "cure" is don't take the next drink.....you are allergic....not everyone is allergic to the stuff...you are...can you imagine having this monkey off your back? stop telling yourself it can't be done...you know you want to be well....people here can only read about your struggle....you have to do the work....ok....am stepping down off the soapbox....and of course no offense dear Oncereturner....d :heart:

binocular
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:22 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:32 am
Of course. Facing the truth is hard, they tell stories about their suffering. They try and fail, just like me. Some of them beated the addiction, but they don't tell us how.
After the meeting I was anxious, this is maybe an incurable disease. The doctor also said there's no cure. Almost every illness is curable but this is not. I think this lets me down.
I think it helps to understand that the doctors and the other medical staff in hospitals and recovery programs and similar are there to do just two things: 1. prescribe and give medications, and 2. facilitate some conversations with patients about the topic of addiction. That is all.

Addiction is incurable in the sense that doctors can't do much to stop a person from having the addiction. With many diseases, the doctors can do things and the disease goes away, but addiction is not like that.

This is why when one goes to seek help for an addiction, one shouldn't go there the same way one goes to get help for, say, a fungal infection or a broken leg. If one has a fungal infection, one goes to the doctor, is prescribed a medication, applies the medication, and that's that. With a broken leg, one lets the doctors fix it, and that's that. But many chronic diseases and addictions are not like that. Think, for example, how much work either type 1 diabetes or type 2 diabetes require from the patient. A person with either type of diabetes can't just put themselves into the hands of the doctors to do all the work of helping them or curing them. Instead, the patient has to do most of the work themselves in managing the disease, every day.

So when one seeks help for addiction, it might be a good idea to go to the doctors not with the expectation that the doctors will cure one, but only with the hope that the doctors could be able to help one overcome the addiction.
Basically, you expect that you will do the vast majority of the work, and the doctors are there just to help a bit.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

dharmacorps
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:31 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:32 am
dharmacorps wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:29 pm
oncereturner, can you share why AA meetings are a let down for you?
Of course. Facing the truth is hard, they tell stories about their suffering. They try and fail, just like me. Some of them beated the addiction, but they don't tell us how.
After the meeting I was anxious, this is maybe an incurable disease. The doctor also said there's no cure. Almost every illness is curable but this is not. I think this lets me down.
You're having the reaction you are supposed to have when you start-- facing the truth is hard. It hurts. Stay with that-- don't shrink away from it. Its only with persistence that you can begin to listen to what is being said at the meetings. Read the big book. It will begin to sink in. Be willing to admit you don't know anything about how to fix this and every effort you have made to do so up until now has failed. Be willing to consider other people probably have succeeded. Listen to those who have solved their problem with alcohol. Leave your pride and self involvement to the side and just listen. There is the message of the solution there you are probably just too wrapped up in yourself right now to hear it. That's how it is for people new in AA.

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:31 pm

Another hard working day, I had to deal with enraged, mad clients. I feel like projectile vomiting and despair.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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LG2V
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by LG2V » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:20 am

Good luck on your journey. :twothumbsup: You have my respect.

Alcohol, who needs the stuff anyway? It burns when you drink it and makes you sick and miserable the next day. Not to mention the other problems that come with it. I stopped drinking nearly 6 years ago and I haven't regretted it.
Here are some excellent sites for giving free Dana (Click-Based Donation):
http://freerice.comhttp://greatergood.com/www.ripple.orgwww.thenonprofits.com

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:45 pm

I was in the hospital asking for help. I talked to a doctor, and described my problem, heavy alcohol addiction. He said go to the emergency station, if I have delirium, they will accept me as a patient, so I went there.

At the emergency station they told me they only accept non conscious patients, and ambulance cars. I was told to go to a foundation, which is only open in working hours. As I work every day I can't go there. And I need a referee to get into the hospital. Doctor told me at the local mental facility, in his opinion I shouldn't go to rehab and I was not given a referee.

This is an eastern European nightmare, but I don't give up and find a way to get into the rehabilitation center.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

rightviewftw
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by rightviewftw » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:35 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:45 pm
I was in the hospital asking for help. I talked to a doctor, and described my problem, heavy alcohol addiction. He said go to the emergency station, if I have delirium, they will accept me as a patient, so I went there.

At the emergency station they told me they only accept non conscious patients, and ambulance cars. I was told to go to a foundation, which is only open in working hours. As I work every day I can't go there. And I need a referee to get into the hospital. Doctor told me at the local mental facility, in his opinion I shouldn't go to rehab and I was not given a referee.

This is an eastern European nightmare, but I don't give up and find a way to get into the rehabilitation center.
Idk enough to comment on your particular situation but sure hope you get twice the help you need.
Do you practice Satipatthana meditation?
How to meditate: Anapanasati, Satipatthana.
Intro to General Semantics
Factors & Perceptions

Parallel Dhammapada Reading
Chinese to Eng Dhp
"The statements; 'With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media is it the case that there is anything else?' '.. is it the case that there is not anything else .. is it the case that there both is & is not anything else .. is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?' objectify non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes."

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:55 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:35 pm
oncereturner wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:45 pm
I was in the hospital asking for help. I talked to a doctor, and described my problem, heavy alcohol addiction. He said go to the emergency station, if I have delirium, they will accept me as a patient, so I went there.

At the emergency station they told me they only accept non conscious patients, and ambulance cars. I was told to go to a foundation, which is only open in working hours. As I work every day I can't go there. And I need a referee to get into the hospital. Doctor told me at the local mental facility, in his opinion I shouldn't go to rehab and I was not given a referee.

This is an eastern European nightmare, but I don't give up and find a way to get into the rehabilitation center.
Idk enough to comment on your particular situation but sure hope you get twice the help you need.
Do you practice Satipatthana meditation?
I don't exactly know what is Satipatthana meditation. Only dhamma can help me now.

:namaste:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:46 am

I want to go to hospital, but my boss don't let me go. I've got to work. I didn't mention her I'm going to die.

In April I booked a time for an appointment to the hospital. I'll get inside, if I'm still alive next month.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

binocular
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:32 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:06 pm
Since Istanbul is very interesting city (I think the most historically significant place in Europe after Athens and Rome) you will not be bored and your mind will not turn to alcohol. You are from EU schengen zone so travel to Turkey is hassle free.

If you do need alcohol .. it is available but you have to work hard to find it.
Don't count on that.
https://www.tooistanbul.com/en/turkish-alcohols/
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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oncereturner
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:57 pm

No_Mind wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:06 pm
oncereturner wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:17 am
Garrib wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:50 pm

I would advise you to ditch the alcohol - it doesn't make pain go away for long, and it brings more pain in its wake!
I feel very good, but next day is very bitter. Every morning I feel I'm going to die.I was in hospital 6 times related to toxication. I've already lost my self-control, I'm heavily addicted, doctor says I have 10 more years left at maximum. I'm 36. Without alcohol, I have no life, I feel depression.

Question is, to live with pain, mental illness, or die young with some joy?
Late to this topic .. I drank a pint of whiskey daily for five years in my twenties and gave it up. I still drink an occasional peg but with friends (birthday and such)

Alcoholism is not a disease and alcoholic can return to social drinking.

What you need is a massive "pattern interrupt". You live in Hungary. Go someplace for five days which has totally different culture. I would suggest Istanbul (by train so people can frown at you if you drink). Drinking is not as prevalent in Turkey as in Hungary. So .. it will be tough for you to find a bottle easily (I know those who drink can manage to find a bottle even in middle of the desert .. I have done so many times)

The shock to your system would carry you over next five days by which time you will have detoxed.

Since Istanbul is very interesting city (I think the most historically significant place in Europe after Athens and Rome) you will not be bored and your mind will not turn to alcohol. You are from EU schengen zone so travel to Turkey is hassle free. If you do need alcohol .. it is available but you have to work hard to find it.

Eat Turkish food (doner kebab and pilaf and baclava with tea) .. visit bazaars .. completely different culture from what you are used. If you can make it to one week (counting the train trip 168 hours outside Hungary) you will be cured

In my case after my immediate detox (first ten days) I took up exercise and got a six pack .. set a target .. I will run 11 miles in an hour and just do it .. that enormous amount of exercising for four years cured me of any wish to drink .. when I next drank after several years it tasted different.

Bottom line .. it is very easy to get rid of alcohol if one gets really interested in something else to fill the void .. exercise is the most usual filler.

:namaste:
I was in hospital again, asking for help. Doctor released me after one day, and gave me rivotril (strong benzo). The worst thing a doctor can do with an alcoholic. Next day I drank 12 beers and took rivotril. Congrats doctor, but you didn't managed to kill me.

My last hope is getting into rehab center, I have an appointment on April 10 with addiction specialist doctor.

:namaste:
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

dharmacorps
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:25 pm

Great job Oncereturner. I am sorry about the bad doctors and bad advice you get in real life and on this forum. Keep persisting and go to rehab. :anjali:

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No_Mind
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Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by No_Mind » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:11 am

dharmacorps wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:25 pm
Great job Oncereturner. I am sorry about the bad doctors and bad advice you get in real life and on this forum. Keep persisting and go to rehab. :anjali:
Buddy, all of us are trying to help him for last 9 pages. Who are you to say we are giving bad advice?

Oncereturner shared his problem and everyone beginning with David and ending with me have given him support and advice. Why bad mouth us?

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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