Buddhism and alcohol

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
User avatar
bodom
Posts: 6182
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:28 pm

You need to go to detox and rehab. I really can't say it any other way. You have to go. No more excuses or justifications or rationalizations. You have to go. And to be honest it's not really that you have to go, or need to go, it's that you need to want to go. Unless your desire to stay sober is stronger than your desire to drink you will never stop and this thread will continue to grow longer and longer with no change. Go to rehab.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

dharmacorps
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:35 pm

Bodom took the words out of my mouth.

This needs to stop. Stop searching for causes and justifications or explanations. Even if you had a perfect explanation for why you drink, it wouldn't get you sober.

Either you want to stop drinking and are willing to do anything to stop it, in which case go to rehab--

or

you aren't seriously done drinking, in which case you will continue to drink and hurt yourself and others. That it will only get worse is not a question-- it will. This is from people who have been there.

binocular
Posts: 5077
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:48 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:35 pm
Either you want to stop drinking and are willing to do anything to stop it
Of course he wants to quit. Of course he is willing to do anything to stop it.
It would just help to strenghten, nurture, develop that desire so that it can become strong enough.

- - -
bodom wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:28 pm
and this thread will continue to grow longer and longer with no change. Go to rehab.
In the spirit of this: How about some bold action and locking this thread, so as to not enable procrastination about going to rehab or other decisive actions to overcome the addiction?

Instead, another thread can be started, with the theme "What have I done today to overcome my addiction?"

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:44 pm

bodom wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:28 pm
You need to go to detox and rehab. I really can't say it any other way. You have to go. No more excuses or justifications or rationalizations. You have to go. And to be honest it's not really that you have to go, or need to go, it's that you need to want to go. Unless your desire to stay sober is stronger than your desire to drink you will never stop and this thread will continue to grow longer and longer with no change. Go to rehab.

:namaste:
I see and understand I must go to hospital. I have lost control of drinking.

The problem is that, this year I can't go the detox. Other colleagues went to vacation or hospital. I am the only one who can do this work, no one can do my job.

My boss is already angry, because I was sick (due to hangover) last month for some days. I told her I have high blood pressure... but it's obvious that I'm drinking. She is already thinking of firing me. This month I managed to go to work every day, without serious hangover. I risking losing my job.

This girl really hurts me and makes me drink even more. She causes me pain.

The problem is now very simple, alcoholism has became the greatest problem of my life. Health is the most important. I must beat my addiction.

Maybe next year I can go the rehab... right now I don't know what to do.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

dharmacorps
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:26 am

You do know what to do. You just need to do it. There are no other considerations.

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:58 pm

This company is not tolerant about sickness.

detox -> losing my job -> relapse -> losing my house

I may not lose my job, but there is a high risk.

In addition I've seen people coming in and out from detox. I talked to a man and the told me that he was in detox 26 times. I come in and out as well.

I can't go the AA, because I work until evening. And drank before and after AA meeting.

There must be another permanent solution. Yesterday I've read dhammapada for 4 hours, I understood it clearly, but then drank 8 beers.

I will not accept my fate. There should be a self-help solution, willpower maybe and avoiding stress triggers.

My plan is:
1. stop computer gaming
2. no girls
3. avoiding that liquor store, where I go usually after work, changing route (this will be the hardest)

I will recite Thanissaro Bhikkhu's words on my way
"As long as evil has yet to ripen, the fool mistakes it for honey. But when that evil ripens, the fool falls into pain."

4. avoiding forest
5. drink tea of St. John's Wort (withdrawal depression)
6. B-vitamins
7. sedatives (withdrawal anxiety)
8. avoiding foolish man, and find wise friends
9. reading sriptures and participating in DW forum

With Metta
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

Garrib
Posts: 414
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 8:35 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by Garrib » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:17 pm

You have a plan that sounds like it might work, but you have to stick to it!

binocular
Posts: 5077
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by binocular » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:24 pm

A suggestion:
Find new things to do, if possible, pleasurable or interesting ones.

For example: join the public library, go to a museum, the aquarium, go to a nice part of town where you normally don't go to.

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:48 pm

Garrib wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:17 pm
You have a plan that sounds like it might work, but you have to stick to it!
I almost done it, sober and in good mood, changed my route away from the liquor store, but another store popped up. You already know the rest, 7 beers.
There are changes in my job for the very worse, next week I have to do a nerve-killer work with a horrible boss. I'm almost got sober, but now it is really too much.
I have no more plans. I'm afraid samsara awaits me.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 6182
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:35 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:48 pm
Garrib wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:17 pm
You have a plan that sounds like it might work, but you have to stick to it!
I almost done it, sober and in good mood, changed my route away from the liquor store, but another store popped up. You already know the rest, 7 beers.
There are changes in my job for the very worse, next week I have to do a nerve-killer work with a horrible boss. I'm almost got sober, but now it is really too much.
I have no more plans. I'm afraid samsara awaits me.
How many meeting have you gone too? Who did you ask for help to keep you sober today? What are you doing exactly to help yourself? If Nothing changes Nothing changes.

:namaste:

User avatar
Nicolas
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:59 pm
Location: Somerville, MA, USA

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by Nicolas » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:20 pm

oncereturner:
Have you tried putting yourself in situations where there is no available alcohol? (e.g. meditation retreats, rehabilitation centers)
Do you live alone? Do you have friends who can hold you accountable? Do you have friends who also want to quit drinking?
One possibility is to make a bet with a friend: whoever drinks first has to give the other a non-negligible amount of money. Then you might be thinking "do I want to buy a beer or lose 30,000 forints?", and it might be easier to resist. (It can also be one-sided: you don't need to have friends who want to quit drinking.)
My father stopped smoking in his early twenties thanks to a monetary bet.

dharmacorps
Posts: 392
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by dharmacorps » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:33 pm

Nicolas wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:20 pm
One possibility is to make a bet with a friend: whoever drinks first has to give the other a non-negligible amount of money. Then you might be thinking "do I want to buy a beer or lose 30,000 forints?", and it might be easier to resist. (It can also be one-sided: you don't need to have friends who want to quit drinking.)
My father stopped smoking in his early twenties thanks to a monetary bet.
My goodness. That may work with smoking, but alcoholism is, in my opinion quite obviously, a completely different ball game. Although oncereturner is in some ways rejecting, so far, the well intended help of many people on here, he still deserves to get good advice because there are people on here who have been "there".

Monetary repercussions or other penalties (hospital visits, lost relationships, fights, depression, anxiety, jail, institutionalization) may stop someone from drinking (almost always temporarily) but will not keep someone sober. If you have been to an AA meeting you would know that the first week.

I think it would be good if we let people who have been through the experience of alcoholism dispense the advice because ideas like this are based ignorance of the disease process and beyond not being helpful, and potentially damaging. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I feel it needs to be said.

mal4mac
Posts: 370
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:47 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by mal4mac » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:22 pm

dharmacorps wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:33 pm
I think it would be good if we let people who have been through the experience of alcoholism dispense the advice because ideas like this are based ignorance of the disease process and beyond not being helpful, and potentially damaging. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I feel it needs to be said.
Why would people who have been through alcoholism be the best advisers? What worked for them might not work for others. Seek advice from medical experts! For example, Baumeister, whose book I mentioned earlier. (He says go to AA, amongst many other things, but better to here it from him than from me, or some random alcoholic in a forum.)
- Mal

User avatar
Nicolas
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:59 pm
Location: Somerville, MA, USA

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by Nicolas » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:02 am

dharmacorps wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:33 pm
I think it would be good if we let people who have been through the experience of alcoholism dispense the advice because ideas like this are based ignorance of the disease process and beyond not being helpful, and potentially damaging. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I feel it needs to be said.
You're completely right. It hadn't occurred to me. I apologize.

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2450
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by manas » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:38 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:54 pm
JeffR wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:16 am

Find people you can talk to who will support you in staying sober. The Buddha has said that good companions are the whole of the holy life.
I have a lot of friends, everyone says I must stop. A lot of people are worrying for me. I don't want to die. But life seems to be unbearable without alcohol, due to my severe depression.
Just reading this, makes me wonder if you could get a professional to dig a little deeper. and uncover the underlying cause of your depression? Is there something in your life or life history, that intoxicants help to suppress, or smooth over? If so, I can certainly relate, but in the end I realized that my chosen 'self-medication' was causing so much dukkha via side-effects (not to mention shortening my life), that I would rather confront the underlying pain and distress directly - it hurts, but not as much as losing one's life to addiction.
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:10 pm

I experience a full-blown relapse. I never drink on Sundays, at least one day a week. I should extend this period for a longer time. My plan is a total failure. To be honest, all my plans fail.

I will never give up fighting this addiction. It seems to be impossible, but there must be some solution.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:04 pm

manas wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:38 pm

Just reading this, makes me wonder if you could get a professional to dig a little deeper. and uncover the underlying cause of your depression? Is there something in your life or life history, that intoxicants help to suppress, or smooth over? If so, I can certainly relate, but in the end I realized that my chosen 'self-medication' was causing so much dukkha via side-effects (not to mention shortening my life), that I would rather confront the underlying pain and distress directly - it hurts, but not as much as losing one's life to addiction.
The underlying cause is obvious, and clear. I lost my fancy house, and now I live in a ghetto. I have several pictures of my house, and I look at this pictures in tears.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

User avatar
Ren
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:12 pm

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by Ren » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:31 pm

oncereturner wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:04 pm
manas wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:38 pm

Just reading this, makes me wonder if you could get a professional to dig a little deeper. and uncover the underlying cause of your depression? Is there something in your life or life history, that intoxicants help to suppress, or smooth over? If so, I can certainly relate, but in the end I realized that my chosen 'self-medication' was causing so much dukkha via side-effects (not to mention shortening my life), that I would rather confront the underlying pain and distress directly - it hurts, but not as much as losing one's life to addiction.
The underlying cause is obvious, and clear. I lost my fancy house, and now I live in a ghetto. I have several pictures of my house, and I look at this pictures in tears.
You know what the Buddha Dharma says on craving...

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 6182
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by bodom » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:49 pm

The underlying cause is obvious, and clear. I lost my fancy house, and now I live in a ghetto. I have several pictures of my house, and I look at this pictures in tears.
No, those are excuses why you continue to drink. It is ignorance and craving for your experience to be other than it is that is driving your addiction.

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

User avatar
oncereturner
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:15 am
Location: Hungary

Re: Buddhism and alcohol

Post by oncereturner » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:52 pm

Ren wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:31 pm

You know what the Buddha Dharma says on craving...
I lost my house and I'm about to lose this ghetto too, so I am nearly homeless. I was in the court today, due to my financial problems. The judge said I have a final chance. I will fight for this ghetto until to the end.

So it's from a fancy house to the streets.

I am extremely sad and depressed, alcohol gives me some relief. I am aware that this leads to nowhere. I must stop my addiction. But I have lost my mind.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: adrianbkelly and 60 guests